Sutil will not likely stay... he wants a better car. Maclaren or Brawn are possibilities.

I can see Rosberg going to Maclaren, Brawn, or even Toyota, but I don't think Brawn can afford both Button and Rosberg. If Brawn can't meet Button's demands, that leaves only Toyota with a big enough budget for a top driver. That would be too funny if Button and Kobayashi ended up on the same team... fate I tell ya!

Toyota
Button
Kobayashi
Nakajima as test driver

Brawn
Rosberg
Heidfeld

Maclaren
Hamilton
Sutil

Williams
Barrichello
Hulkenberg

Renault
Kubica
Kovalainen

Force India
Glock
Liuzzi

Modified by QUATTR0 at 2:10 PM 11/1/2009

Quote, originally posted by Binary Star »

"its not cool to drive bad cars" .....

He tells it like it is... as usual.

Screw the poor!!!

I think he will stay. Thought I heard him say it. And why not, Mallya has pockets like Mateschitz and look what happened! FI actually was rather impressive this year!

I think it's pretty set that it's Roseberg and Button at Brawn, isn't it? And I think Toyota will be Glock + Kobayashi. I agree with Renault and Williams.

Brawn simply cannot afford to pay for both Button and Rosberg unless Mercedes heavily backs them. Button/Rosberg would be $20M+... their current driver budget is $6M. If Button does leave I wouldn't be surprised to see Kovalainen (with Mercedes experience) or Heidfeld replace him.

With Mercedes moving resources to Brawn that will mean a reduced driver budget at MacLaren. You can forget about Kimi let alone Button or Rosberg. A young German driver like Sutil or Glock would be a good fit.

Modified by QUATTR0 at 11:56 PM 11/1/2009

Button and Rosberg will be @ Brawn. Button is asking for ~8-10M, I believe and Nico is paid ~8M now. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Brawn negotiates a lower salary with Nico with a promise of a winning car.

PSN: dmang007

Brawn
Button
Rosberg

Maclaren
Hamilton
Sutil

Williams
Barrichello
Hulkenberg

Renault
Kubica
Glock

Force India
Kovalainen
Liuzzi

Sauber
Heidfeld
Klien

Stan...

Quote, originally posted by GTIVRSEX2 »

Sutil would be Hamiltons dream partner and they could share the same room in the hotel...

I think Kimi was asking $50 mill for next year, and he has no obligation to do charity type events with the team (or something to that nature) plus Ferrari has to pay him $20 mill to not race for them in 2010 due to his contract

"if someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES!"

Quote, originally posted by OGSDUB »

And look at Jon go wtf does that guy not do? VR swaps for breakfast, Climbs trees and cuts them down for lunch, Delivers babies in a burning house for dinner. Jon you are one f@cking super hero!

i thought the deal with kimi was....

50mil not to race in 2010, or if he does race, ferrari only needs to pay 20mil.... So, anything less than a 30mil contract is a net loss?

the car lounge daily trivia game, everyone is welcome !

I think its time for Kimi to get the fk out of F1. Greedy bastid.

PSN: dmang007

the car lounge daily trivia game, everyone is welcome !

"if someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES!"

Quote, originally posted by OGSDUB »

And look at Jon go wtf does that guy not do? VR swaps for breakfast, Climbs trees and cuts them down for lunch, Delivers babies in a burning house for dinner. Jon you are one f@cking super hero!

Quote, originally posted by f1-live »

According to his termination deal with Ferrari, the Italian team has promised to pay Raikkonen €17m if he does not race in F1 next year, and €10m if he finds suitable employment elsewhere. Realising this, McLaren has reportedly offered Raikkonen just 5 million for the 2010 seat, concluding that €15m in total earnings is a very healthy amount for the 2007 world champion. Presently, Raikkonen's management team of Steve and David Robertson is demanding that McLaren pay a full retainer, plus agree to a reduced amount of sponsorship days for their charge.

Perfectly fair, imo.

PSN: dmang007

I don;t see how people can think this is fair, in any other form of business it would not, so why is okay in F1?

Lets put this in real work numbers.... I work for Design firm A and make $100,000 they let me go, but with a severance package of say $25,000. Now, If I look for another job, am I now only worth $75,000 to Design Firm B? No, I'm still a 100k employee. There should be no reason my 'package' takes any effect on the salary my next employer should pay.

if you work for design firm A, make 100,000, they realize you are expendible and you get laid off because they can get a college intern to do it for 1/4 of that although not as well, then you are unemployed and delivering pizzas at night. thats the 2009 version. kimi is that overpaid guy. there are cheaper replacements that can drive as well as him cheaper. just not fisichella or badour.

the car lounge daily trivia game, everyone is welcome !

Quote, originally posted by Binary Star »

I think its time for Kimi to get the fk out of F1. Greedy bastid.

Greedy? I am so tired of people demonizing success. More wealth envy...if Kimi can land a $100M contract (as an example), why is he a greedy? Kimi will get paid what the market will bear. No more. No less.

Better yet, let's have Jean Todt & Bernie follow the United States' lead and determine driver wages.

Kimi is overpaid, but all Ferrari drivers are overpaid... This is evident by the fact that his 2010 contract was for an additional $45mil....

Now, with the current economy I can understand the negotiated buy out for 17mil, but that still should not give McLaren the ability to pay him 5mil... If the market says a driver of Kimis talent is worth 17, that pay 17,,, don;t expect to get it for 5 because he has another source of income.

Quote, originally posted by ClockworkChad »

there are cheaper replacements that can drive as well as him cheaper. just not fisichella or badour.

that's an assumption. Many would say (me being one of them) that Raikkonen was the best sunday driver on the grid for 2009. Sure, Alonso is a better "feedback driver" to help in a car development, or Hamilton, might have more "raw talent", but come race day, Kimi will put the car in the best possible outcome it could... As Ferrari stopped developing the f60, he still continued to excel as evident by the second half of the season Raikkonen outscored (38pts) every driver on the grid with the exception of Hamilton (40pts). Brawn, McLaren, RedBull, BMW, & Toyota all had better cars than Ferrari. Hell, I might even say Force India had a better car since it clearly was up on power on the F60. So... what did those other drivers do with it? The only car I would say was worse the the Ferrari was the Renault,,, and you can see where that got a driver of Alonso's talent, a cool 26 drivers points...

Modified by BrothersinArms at 12:39 PM 11-6-2009

Demonizing success? oh please!

Greedy because that's the only thing holding him back from what he "loves" to do... supposedly. How is asking for 30M NOT greedy when you've already earned 45M in a year when everyone else (including those who were delivering better than he was) was earning ~5-20M range? Not to mention this 30M is on top of what Ferrari will be paying him to not race for them.

Am I the only who thinks of it this way?

EDIT: on top of that, he doesn't even want to do the sponsor appearances... or do very limited appearances. if someone is getting paid so much mula, why the fuss?

Modified by Binary Star at 3:38 PM 11-6-2009

PSN: dmang007

Good argument.

Lets see how this one plays out. For some reason, it seems like Kimi might be sitting out on 2010, I hope for the opposite though.

PSN: dmang007

Plus Kimi is way less likely to do this-

or this

or this

Recruiting Kimi might be McLaren's best chance at winning a WCC. Having one good driver and one bad one doesn't cut it.

Modified by TazioNuvolari at 1:21 PM 11-6-2009

All I am saying is to let the situation play out....and it will. It the paddock believes his asking price is too much...then he will have a decision to make.

I think it is difficult to throw the word "greed" around. He obviously brings a PR element (WC 2007) along with his race pace...and that is worth something. The powers that be will determine what that amount is...but I cannot sit on the sidelines and determine that.

I say he better take that money and show off Lewis next year!

looks like the toro rosso drivers are confirmed for next year again.

nakajima is out (hulkenburg and rubens confirmed for 2010) - so where does that put kazoo ?

the senna, digrassi, hulkenburg in the mix for next year, and kubica, heidfeld, kovalinen looking for seats i wonder if kaz, kobayashi, or even seb bourdais has a chance of a seat next year with a new team

the car lounge daily trivia game, everyone is welcome !

Kubica is confirmed at Renault.

the car lounge daily trivia game, everyone is welcome !

Quote, originally posted by TazioNuvolari »

If Kimi went to McLaren he would deserve at least what Lewis is making (~$18 million right?). He won the WDC just 2 years ago plus he has way more experience then Hamilton and knowledge of the Ferrari system. McLaren would be very very lucky to have him back. He is a top 5 driver in F1. He would have been a multiple WDC if McLaren had built a car that didn't fall apart on him every other race. Plus Kimi is way less likely to do this- or this or this Recruiting Kimi might be McLaren's best chance at winning a WCC. Having one good driver and one bad one doesn't cut it. Modified by TazioNuvolari at 1:21 PM 11-6-2009

I agree, Kimi was great at Mclaren, but it was very frustrating seeing his car break all the time when he was in front , maybe he has a good chance at Mclaren now seeing their cars and engines seem to be holding up better
Lew Ham has a lot of learning to do, he has made many pointless mistakes, many more than most other drivers (driving into Kimi in the pits, driving into the pea gravel going into the pits, crashing when there is no need to push the car etc.....)

Modified by radojon at 12:48 PM 11-10-2009

"if someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES!"

Quote, originally posted by OGSDUB »

And look at Jon go wtf does that guy not do? VR swaps for breakfast, Climbs trees and cuts them down for lunch, Delivers babies in a burning house for dinner. Jon you are one f@cking super hero!

Team by Team

Brawn GP

Engine: Mercedes
Title Sponsor: ??????
Driver 1: Jenson Button?
Driver 2: Nico Rosberg?

2009 Season:
Brawn GP took the Formula One world by storm in 2009. Honda spent all of 2008 developing the 2009 car, only to pull out before the start of the season. A management buyout saved the team, and they hit the ground running. The early season superiority of the BGP001 combined with Jenson Button’s smooth driving style earned Button 6 wins in the first 7 races. Barrichello struggled with brakes early on and allowed Button to build up a comfortable lead. By mid season, Red Bull and McLaren were both faster, but Button was able to score enough points in the latter half to claim the world title. Barrichello picked up wins in Valencia and Monza to earn Brawn the constructor’s title.

2010 Preview:
The world champions head into 2010 looking strong, but no one is expecting them to repeat their 2009 feats. The money that Honda left them is now gone, and their workforce has been significantly reduced. Still, they were 3rd fastest at the end of 2009 and some strong showings in 2010 shouldn’t be out of the question. The team has yet to confirm either driver, but it is likely they will retain Jenson Button and sign Nico Rosberg. Mercedes has purchased a stake in the team, with a full takeover expected within a few years. The team has also secured funding for the next three seasons via an unnamed title sponsor.

Red Bull Racing

Engine: Renault?
Title Sponsor: Red Bull
Driver 1: Sebastian Vettel
Driver 2: Mark Webber

2009 Season:
Red Bull Racing had a breakthrough year in 2009, Adrian Newey finally delivering after two lackluster seasons with the team. Sebastian Vettel was on target for 2nd in the season opener, without the help of a double diffuser. Everyone was blown away by Red Bull’s speed early in the season, and predicted that they would be the team to beat once they got it on and sorted out. Vettel delivered Red Bull their first victory in the wet Chinese grand prix. The team had the diffuser in Monaco, took pole the next race at Istanbul, and by Silverstone they were the class of the field. Vettel and Webber picked up 5 wins in the last 10 races, but unfortunately it wasn’t enough to catch Button and Brawn. David Hobbs said after the 2008 season, “If Sebastian Vettel doesn’t win the world championship within a few years it’ll be a miracle.” Eerily, he was right. Had the diffusers been declared illegal, Vettel would most likely be world champion.

2010 Preview:
Red Bull proved in 2009 that they are a top team in grand prix racing. After 6 wins and runner up positions in the driver’s and constructor’s championships, anything but both titles will be a disappointment. They have retained both of their race winning drivers, and are hoping that their speed will continue into 2010. Vettel is an obvious favorite for the world championship. They have yet to decide on an engine, although it is expected they will continue using Renaults (assuming Renault is still in Formula One next year).

McLaren

Engine: Mercedes
Title Sponsor: Vodafone
Driver 1: Lewis Hamilton
Driver 2: Kimi Raikkonen?

2009 Season:
After channeling all of their resources into taking the 2008 championship, McLaren started off 2009 looking completely lost. The car was slow, the drivers weren’t happy, and things weren’t looking good at all. Lewis Hamilton lying to the stewards in Australia didn’t help matters either. However, they kept on track, and behind the scenes rose back up to the front. Hamilton’s front row start in Germany, and subsequent victory at Hungary marked the completion of their turnaround. Hamilton was a contender for race victories from then on, his drives in Singapore and Interlagos a reminder of his immense talent.

2010 Preview:
McLaren looked like the team of old at the end of 2009, and they are tipped to be championship contenders again in 2010. Kimi Raikkonen is the favorite to take the second seat; the thought of him and Hamilton on the same team has the mouths of reporters around the world salivating. Mercedes’ future involvement with McLaren remains a question, as rumors circulate about a complete takeover of the Brawn GP team. The fact that McLaren chose to use a Cosworth-designed engine instead of a Mercedes in their MP4-12C supercar is even more ominous.

Ferrari

Engine: Ferrari
Title Sponsor: Santander
Driver 1: Felipe Massa
Driver 2: Fernando Alonso

2009 Season:
After taking both titles in 2007, and finishing one point shy of the driver’s title in 2008, 2009 was a disaster for the Scuderia. Teething troubles with KERS and the lack of a double diffuser were the main factors in their dismal first half, and of course there was Massa’s accident in Hungary. Thereafter though, Raikkonen looked reasonably competitive and took an impressive win at Spa. However, as Honda did in 2008, Ferrari ended development on the F60 early on and prepared themselves for an all out attack in 2010. Raikkonen was booted out in favor of Fernando Alonso, who Domenicali thought would give them a better shot at the world title.

2010 Preview:
The pairing of Alonso and Massa should create fireworks both on and off the track. Alonso is expected to be the faster of the two, and so the pressure on Massa will be immense. If the early development on this year’s Ferrari pays off then Felipe could be sitting pretty in Bahrain, as he won back to back races there in 2007 and 2008. Nonetheless, I expect Ferrari to bounce back and record multiple victories in 2010 and challenge for both titles.

Toyota

Engine: Toyota
Title Sponsor: Panasonic

2009 Season:
Toyota was the second of the three teams to show up in Melbourne with a double diffuser. Three podiums in the first three races signaled a return to form, and they had the pace to win in Bahrain. Subpar performances throughout the middle of the season followed by successive second places in Singapore and Suzuka left the drivers and team managers pointing their fingers at each other over the team’s inconsistency. Kamui Kobayashi stormed onto the scene replacing the injured Timo Glock with superb drives in Interlagos and Abu Dhabi, and was tipped to remain at the team for 2010. However, due to the lingering effects of the worldwide economic crisis Toyota had no choice but to end their multi billion-dollar project. On November 4 2009, Toyota announced they were withdrawing from Formula One with immediate effect, leaving Kobayashi without a drive for 2010. The legal ramifications of their departure have yet to be seen.

Qadbak Sauber

Engine: Ferrari?
Title Sponsor: Petronas?
Driver 1: Nick Heidfeld?
Driver 2: ??????

2009 Season:
BMW Sauber were the first team to have a 2009-spec car hit the track, and many in the paddock tipped them for title glory after an impressive 2008 season. Kubica was a major favorite for the title after winning the Canadian Grand Prix the year before and finishing 3rd in the driver’s championship. BMW started the season off fairly well, considering they didn’t have a double diffuser. Kubica was on course for a podium in Melbourne before tangling with Sebastian Vettel. After Australia however, the team’s fortunes took a nosedive and the team only recorded 3 points finishes in the first eleven races. The team’s massive preseason investment had not turned into results, and BMW announced that they were withdrawing at the end of the year.

2010 Preview:
Interestingly enough, the team fared far better in the final races of the season, scoring points in the each of the final seven races. Perhaps an indication of another premature manufacturer withdrawal? The team was rescued late in the year by a consortium of investors known as Qadbak, and were on the outside looking in until Toyota pulled out. They are now very hopeful of making the grid in 2010 using Ferrari engines. Without the big money from BMW, results will be hard to come by. If they are on the grid in Bahrain, that alone will be a major victory for the team from Hinwil. I see them fading back into the midfield, where the team formerly known Sauber spent most of its years.

Williams

Engine: Cosworth
Title Sponsor: AT&T?
Driver 1: Rubens Barrichello
Driver 2: Nico Hulkenberg

2009 Season:
Williams were the third of the “diffuser three” to show up in Melbourne with the controversial device. Nico Rosberg made a habit of finishing atop the timesheets in practice throughout the first part of the season, but was never able to translate his practice speed into race pace. He scored points in 10 of the first 12 races, seven of those finishes were 6th or better. Williams had hoped to become regulars on the podium, but a top three finish eluded them when they wholeheartedly deserved one. They ended up finishing a dismal 7th in the constructor’s championship, which could have been 5th had they had a capable driver in the second seat.

2010 Preview:
Nico Rosberg announced he was leaving for greener pastures (presumably Brawn GP) late in the 2009 season. Nakajima was dumped as were the free Toyota engines he brought with him. Williams has confirmed a switch to Cosworth engines, and signed Brawn refugee Rubens Barrichello and GP2 champ Nico Hulkenberg. Expect Williams to finish where they have been the past three seasons, 7th in the constructor’s championship with ~30 points. Barrichello is the perfect mentor for Hulkenberg, who is supposed to be the next Vettel/Hamilton/Schumacher/Senna/Fangio.

Renault

Engine: Renault
Title Sponsor: ??????
Driver 1: Robert Kubica
Driver 2: Timo Glock?

2009 Season:
After taking two (well, one) late season victory in 2008, and leaping to 4th in the constructor’s championship, Renault had high hopes going into 2009. They had signed their double world champion through the end of 2010, and they were able to bring their engine up to par with everyone else. Instead of challenging for the title, Renault experienced their worst season since 2001, when the team was known as Benetton. Alonso miraculously got a pole and a podium finish out of the R29, while his GP2 star teammates couldn’t score a single point. The sacking of Piquet mid-season led to “crashgate,” and the team lost their title sponsor, their double world champion driver, their team principal, and their technical director.

2010 Preview:
As of November 6th, Renault’s participation in Formula One next year is in doubt. I personally think they will stay on as an engine supplier at least, as they have a long history with the sport. Since their entry in 1977, they’ve participated in all but 6 seasons, either as a manufacturer or engine supplier. They’ve signed Robert Kubica for 2010, and Timo Glock is the favorite for the second seat.

Force India

Engine: Mercedes
Title Sponsor: Kingfisher
Driver 1: Adrian Sutil?
Driver 2: Vitantonio Liuzzi?

2009 Season:
Force India were another feel-good story of the 2009 season. After going pointless in 2008, Force India partnered with Mercedes for 2009 and produced a pretty decent car given their resources. The car ran at the back of the pack for most of the year, but came alive on the low downforce circuits of Spa and Monza. Fisichella electrified the paddock with pole position at Spa, and then a spectacular second in the race. Like Jean Alesi before him, Fisichella thought with his heart instead of his head and went to Ferrari, where sadly he would go pointless for the rest of the year. Sutil continued FI’s Spa form with an excellent 4th at Monza, but after that the team returned to the bottom of the pecking order. For two races though, Force India were truly a “force” to be reckoned with.

2010 Preview:
Force India will head into 2010 with things relatively unchanged. They are likely to remain with Mercedes power, and both Sutil and Liuzzi are expected to be retained. As one of the smaller teams, they aren’t expected to fight for points on a regular basis. If they can find some magic like they found at Spa and Monza this year, they may be able to produce another miracle result in 2010.

Toro Rosso

Engine: Ferrari
Title Sponsor: Red Bull
Driver 1: Sebastien Buemi?
Driver 2: Jaime Alguersuari?

2009 Season:
After losing Vettel to Red Bull at the end of 2008, Toro Rosso knew that their spectacular 2008 season was going be hard to duplicate. Toro Rosso began 2009 strongly with both cars finishing in the points in Melbourne; Buemi additionally scoring an impressive point in China. Bourdais found himself at odds with team manager Franz Tost early in the year, and was sacked in favor of Jaime Alguersuari mid-season. Toro Rosso spent most of their time at the back, but managed to impress in the final races of the year. Buemi and Alguersuari showed improved pace in Suzuka, and Buemi finished in the points in the final two races.

2010 Preview:
Starting in 2010, Toro Rosso will have to design and build their own chassis, as opposed to getting Adrian Newey’s designs. Being that Newey’s RB4 chassis was the class of the field in 2009, look for Toro Rosso to take a further step backwards next year. Alguersuari and Buemi are expected to be their 2010 drivers.

Campos Meta

Engine: Cosworth
Title Sponsor: Petrobras?
Driver 1: Bruno Senna
Driver 2: Pedro De La Rosa?

2010 Preview:
The first of the new teams for 2010 is Campos Meta. Set up by ex-F1 driver Adrian Campos, the team will be run out of Madrid, with Dallara building the chassis. Dallara currently builds all of the chassis for the GP2 and IndyCar series’. Dallara was last involved in F1 back in 1993, when they built the chassis for Scuderia Italia. Campos has confirmed that Bruno Senna will drive for the team in 2010, with the second driver likely to be McLaren tester Pedro De La Rosa. Nelson Piquet Jr is another possible candidate.

Lotus F1

Engine: Cosworth
Title Sponsor: ??????
Driver 1: Jarno Trulli?
Driver 2: Fairuz Fauzy?

2010 Preview:
The Lotus name returns to F1 after a 16 year absence. The effort was made possible by ex Benetton and Toyota technical director Mike Gascoyne, who planned to enter F1 in 2010 with the Litespeed F3 team. After his initial entry was rejected, Gascoyne obtained funding from the Malaysian government, and took the 13th and final slot after BMW announced it was pulling out of F1. Gascoyne rates Jarno Trulli very highly, and so Trulli is a favorite to join the team. Fairuz Fauzy is a Malaysian driver who has impressed in GP2 and A1GP, and the new backers would prefer to have at least one Malaysian in the team. Gascoyne clearly has a longer and more impressive CV than anyone at the four new teams, so look for Lotus to impress in its debut season.

Manor Grand Prix

Engine: Cosworth
Title Sponsor: Virgin?
Driver 1: Lucas di Grassi?
Driver 2: Christian Klien?

2010 Preview:
Manor Grand Prix is the third of the new teams, a Formula Three team looking to make the jump to F1. Both Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen drove for Manor in F3. Technical Director Nick Wirth was the man behind the infamous Simtek team, which existed for a brief period in the early 1990’s. He was then the technical director at Benetton for several years after that. Richard Branson is rumored to be buying out the team, and renaming it Virgin F1. Renault test driver Lucas di Grassi and former BMW test driver Christian Klien are the two likely candidates for race seats.

US F1

Engine: Cosworth
Title Sponsor: YouTube?
Driver 1: ??????
Driver 2: ??????

2010 Preview:
Of the four new teams, the least is known about US F1. The team was set up by SpeedTV commentator Peter Windsor and former Ligier technical director Ken Anderson. The team is based in Charlotte, with its European base reported to be at MotorLand Aragon in Spain. During the SpeedTV Abu Dhabi pre-race show, Peter Windsor gave SpeedTV a tour of the Charlotte facility, and even showed CAD drawings of the new car. Little has been done in terms of building the actual car, and both Bernie Ecclestone and Ross Brawn have expressed doubt over the team’s participation next year. Other rumors are circulating that the team plan to sell their 2010 entry to another interested party. Chad Hurley, the inventor of YouTube, was named as an early investor, but no other word about sponsorship has been mentioned in the media. The team have not named any potential drivers either.

Modified by BauleyCivic at 3:27 PM 11-10-2009

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