Verona, Italy – “FIGHT!” It’s that one word yelled at the top of the lungs that can bring every kid in the schoolyard running. On the playground of the auto industry, there’s no better grudge match than two-door performance coupes. Whether it’s the brawl of American muscle cars, the Judo sparring of high-tech Japanese sportscars or the rapier dueling of European performance coupes like Audi’s new S5, it’s enough to make any red-blooded car buff drop his dodge ball and crowd around.

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BTW, you have a broken link on page 1... the "page 2" link on the left points to http://www.fourtitude.com/news...SSXXX


Modified by bzcat at 10:59 AM 5/7/2007

I personally think there's still room for the S-cars. I wouldn't re-badge anything. I think the RS cars though have forced BMW to up their M-car ante, aiming more at the RS so as not to get knocked off of the debatable top-of-the-heap positioning. Today, S-cars don't seem to bother being top-of-the-heap, simply semi-attainable well-sorted performance cars.

Link fixed. Thanks for the note.

selling winter tire setup 16" steelies with wheel covers IM + FALKEN sincera 828 tires me...

now: 06 GLI reflex silver manual pkg2
aspherical blue mirrors| monster mats

I do hope Audi works the kinks out of the notchy shifter and the less-than-linear clutch takeup. Driving dynamics should be an integral part of the car's persona, and shouldn't take a back seat (pun intended) to emotional styling.

Modified by fxhomie at 5:38 PM 8/26/2007

I agree that RS cars is forcing BMW to respond with sharper M cars. But if we are to assume that 335i is the closest S5 competitor than how does Audi justify a near $10k price premium over 335i? Again, I think the S5 will be quite successful in its own right but looking at it from the non-Audi fiend perspective, I have to think that the S5 will be sold on style rather than performance, price (335i), or badge (CLK550). Which may be a fine proposition for Audi to stake out but it begs the question if there should be something between A5 3.2 and S5.

You have to remember that the Audi 5-series cars will sell in MUCH smaller volumes than the BMW coupes. This actually allows Audi to price themselves over the 335 and claim exclusivity.

Well, two things to think about here. First is the 3.0 TDI. Without a proven track record in diesel sales, this car won't come here, but I found it to be the most entertaining drivetrain and the best suited for low U.S. speed limits. I'll review it soon.

You also have to wonder if there will be a turbo. In our recent interview with Wolfgang Hoffmann, he mentioned a turbocharged engine. Could that include the A5? I don't know, so I'm just putting it out there to think about.

That's the trick I guess. S4 comes fairly loaded now, and if MMI and sunroof are standard, I wonder how much more you'd "need" for an S5.

I'll re-check this and correct if necessary.

Thanks man.

These were pre-production and I certainly wasn't on the first wave of journos to take the car on joy rides, so take it for what you will.

Hmmm "detuned" 2.5L inline 5 cylinder Turbo with 300hp........perfectly slotted between the current V6 and the V8. Somewhat like the 335i (which is a tweaner car) although it needs 6 cylinders and two turbos to make 300hp

DCCXXVI

I really like that Audi was able to achieve a 50/50 weight distribution, and the improved steering feedback. It will be great if the steering improvements make their way to the A4.

I really want to love the A5 / S5, but honestly, for the price as configured above, that 335 is hard to beat!

Quote, originally posted by heel_toe »

As far as price goes I'm curious how they are going to option it out. How much am I going to have to add on to make me comfy and happy compared to the 335? Building a 335 the way I wanted it took it to nearly 65k.

One thing from the review that kinda surprised me was the 19" 'star styling' wheels are optional. I could'a sworn I saw in the Euro brochure those were standard equip.

As pricing goes for the S5, you can't just look at hp numbers and compare straight against the 335i coupe. In terms of marketing, these cars are positioned for the style first buyer and in that light the S5 can charge a premium. In order to get a true apples-to-apples comparison, you'd have to take a 335i with similar equipment and add M-tech styling. I've driven the 335i and it's an outstanding car and value, no doubt. But the styling doesn't do it for me like the S5 does. When the 335xi coupe arrives later this year, add options and M-tech you're definitely in the low $50's right with the S5. The largest downfalls of the S5 to me is the transmission (believe Car & Driver's review had the same complaint) and the sunroof.

Question on the interior. I noticed all the pictures with the steel mesh inserts on the door have piano black around the shifter. However, cars with wood or carbon fiber have wood or carbon fiber around the shifter. Is that your understanding of how it will work or can you mix and match with everything?

I have ordered my A5 3.0Ltr TDi and I look forward to reading your review as all reviews to date seem to be about the S5. Looking forward to the pics also.

When do yo think you will be posting the review?

Steve

Not saying a manual itself is a downfall. It's that it's manual as it stands still needs some work.

Quote, originally posted by AudiWorld »

We also experienced some variation in shift throws – in all manual transmission vehicles the 1-2 shift felt rather lengthy, whereas 3-4 and 5-6 shifts felt relatively closer together.

Quote, originally posted by Channel4 »

The six-speed manual keeps you in touch with the power delivery in a way the auto might not, but its shift can be a bit clunky.

Hopefully this week or latest next week. I'm jealous BTW. 3.0 TDI was my favorite.

I can't wait for your write-up on the TDI as mine's scheduled to be built July 9th. Also, do you have a picture of the A (or S) 5 is black?

Thanks
Simon

Should be in mine by late June or early July (according to the dealer), not sure i can wait that long.

Will keep you posted.

Nothing in Black. Sorry. They usually don't order test cars in black because it's hard to phtoograph.

I'm still tossing up between the Ibis White (my current car is white), the the silver metallic, or the Phantom Black!

I just built a 335i with all options, even automatic transmission and it was US$53K. There is no alcantra option in the 335i coupe.

I don't know if there'll be an Alcantara option in the S5 either. It's standard in the TT, so reasonable to suspect in the A5 as well and the A5 I drove did have Alcantara.

Thing is, BMWs get you on the option packages. Even base, you know an S5 is going to be heavy on options, so apples-for-apples, I don't think the S5 is going to fare too poorly against the 335. And, it's more powerful.

I have to admit though - BMW has held pretty firm on their pricing, even with the options and Audi has moved their's upwards. A very nicely equipped 335i with all the options most people would get is about $49k. That's going to be less than a comparably equipped S5. It's right in line with a similarly equipped TT 3.2 6MT.

DCCXXVI

While this comparison is not going to apply directly to 335i and S5 coupe, you can see that even richly optioned, 335i may still undercut a similarly equipped S5 quite significantly. And besides, I just don't see there are anyway possible that Audi USA will not have a premium package separately for another $1k minimum - that's all profit margin on the table for the taking.

This is the S4 premium package: Includes HomeLink universal remote transmitter, auto-dimming and power folding exterior mirrors, auto-dimming interior rearview mirror with compass, exterior illuminated entry, automatic light switch , rain sensor, 4-position memory for driver's seat and mirror adjustments, and adaptive headlights.

This is the 335i premium package: Includes 4-way power adjustable front seat lumbar support, auto-dimming inside rearview mirror with digital compass, power folding and auto-dimming exterior mirrors, universal remote transmitter and BMW Assist with Bluetooth technology. (A 4 year subscription to BMW Assist Safety Plan and TeleService are also included in this option.)

It's pretty similar except you have to get navigation to get Bluetooth in the Audi. Not sure what Audi will include in the premium package for the S5 but my guess is that it will be similar to S4.

Quote, originally posted by bzcat »

BMW is not necessarily more expensive with option packages. I'm shopping for a 335i convertible right now for my wife so I can speak with some intimate knowledge that 335i with sports, premium, cold weather packages, and automatic can be purchased at about $750 over invoice price in Los Angeles (MSRP $55k, invoice $51k). Compare that to S4 convertible with auto, premium package, sat radio, and heated seats, you are looking at $61k MSRP and you won't get near invoice ($57k). Neither car has navigation standard so add another ~$2k to the price for that. While this comparison is not going to apply directly to 335i and S5 coupe, you can see that even richly optioned, 335i may still undercut a similarly equipped S5 quite significantly. And besides, I just don't see there are anyway possible that Audi USA will not have a premium package separately for another $1k minimum - that's all profit margin on the table for the taking. This is the S4 premium package: Includes HomeLink universal remote transmitter, auto-dimming and power folding exterior mirrors, auto-dimming interior rearview mirror with compass, exterior illuminated entry, automatic light switch , rain sensor, 4-position memory for driver's seat and mirror adjustments, and adaptive headlights. This is the 335i premium package: Includes 4-way power adjustable front seat lumbar support, auto-dimming inside rearview mirror with digital compass, power folding and auto-dimming exterior mirrors, universal remote transmitter and BMW Assist with Bluetooth technology. (A 4 year subscription to BMW Assist Safety Plan and TeleService are also included in this option.) It's pretty similar except you have to get navigation to get Bluetooth in the Audi. Not sure what Audi will include in the premium package for the S5 but my guess is that it will be similar to S4.

Same here. The 335i coupe has got an outstanding engine and great handling for a good price. I've been evaluating the 335i for almost a year. For me, the killer is lack of AWD on the 335i. However, it is expected a 335xi coupe will come this fall putting it neck and neck with the S5. That'll leave my only major complaint being the fact the 335i doesn't come with a car alarm...insulting any car in this category would lack a car alarm.

When you equip the 335i with the "basics" (heated leather, sport & premium, car alarm, etc.) you get around $47k. Add $2k for xi (same as 335i sedan to 335xi), add $3k for m-tech (guestimate based on Euro prices) and you're looking at $52ish,000. That's why I expect the S5 to come in at $52k plus options with average price around $55k (until auto is available).

However style is a huge, if not the biggest, influencing factor for most coupe buyers. You see how Audi is stressing the "most beautiful car I've ever designed" line in every article? Audi knows style counts. It's obvious they feel they have a trump card over BMW in styling, and they may charge a premium for it with S5 base MSRP at $55k. I don't blame them as the S5 looks head and shoulders above the m-tech 335i in my eyes, but unfortunately at $55k base they might price themselves just out of my range. And, sorry...unless the S-line A5 has tailpipes that conform to the bumper the same way the S5's quad exhausts are in line with the tail it's just not the same.

At any rate, I'm very much looking forward to Sept. when US pricing is released (here's to hoping pricing gets leaked early).

Any progress with the TDI review? Sorry for being impatient

Simon

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