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    1. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 01:50 PM #1
      After exiting Europe, GM will now exit India and South Africa.

      India is not a big surprise - Chevy has almost no retail presence so it's not an expensive plug to pull and GM will continue to manufacture in India for export.

      South Africa I think is a direct result of culling Opel. Once GM separates from Opel in South Africa, it will lose the economy of scale to operate a stand alone Chevy distribution network.

      http://www.freep.com/story/money/201...ica/329280001/

      General Motors said today it plans to stop selling all cars in India and shed its operations South Africa by the end of this year, a move that continues the automaker's retreat from parts of the world where its profits were lagging so it can focus on profitable regions.

      The Detroit automaker said early Thursday that it will transform its business in India into an export-only operation and will sell its operations in South Africa to Isuzu. GM said its will stop selling its Chevrolet brand in both markets by the end of 2017.
      Last edited by bzcat; 05-18-2017 at 06:55 PM.

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      05-18-2017 01:53 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      After existing Europe, GM will now exit India and South Africa.

      India is not a big surprise - Chevy has almost no retail presence so it's not an expensive plug to pull and GM will continue to manufacture in India for export.

      South Africa I think is a direct result of culling Opel. Once GM separates from Opel in South Africa, it will lose the economy of scale to operate a stand alone Chevy distribution network.

      http://www.freep.com/story/money/201...ica/329280001/
      Isn't this the second time GM left the South African market? Pretty sure they left in '85 and came back a decade later.

    4. Member Dravenport's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 01:55 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by westopher View Post
      If you want to spend a bunch of money for something to look at, buy a painting. I'll happily drive my car til its worth nothing.
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      Since my presence has been requested, Beetlejuice-style, I'll address the current controversy:
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    5. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 01:58 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Dravenport View Post
      Haha!

      But seriously, I think Chevy should do in those countries what Buick has done in China. Let them get their own auto industry up and humming along, then step in as an aspirational brand.

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      05-18-2017 02:05 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Dravenport View Post
      Well, they are barely existing there.

    7. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 06:55 PM #7
      Whoops... I made a typo in the thread title

    8. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 10:17 PM #8
      Seems stupid. But not 90ies GM stupid I guess.
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      05-18-2017 10:22 PM #9
      GM to stop selling crap in other markets to focus on making bigger crap in North America. Seems legit.

      I do wonder what this means for Buick though. I will always hate the name because of the identity attached to it but will this mean the end of re-branded Opels here?
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    10. Member ZPayne's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 10:39 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Isn't this the second time GM left the South African market? Pretty sure they left in '85 and came back a decade later.
      They won't be returning anytime soon this time. South Africa is returning to third world status and will soon be in civil war, if Jacob Zuma (idiot) seizes the lands from the Boer farmers there will be mass starvation and race wars. Yeah it's pretty dire in ZA and I look for more and more carmakers to pull out soon.

    11. Senior Member dubdaze68's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 09:10 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by IridiumB6 View Post
      GM to stop selling crap in other markets to focus on making bigger crap in North America. Seems legit.

      I do wonder what this means for Buick though. I will always hate the name because of the identity attached to it but will this mean the end of re-branded Opels here?
      After the current run of freshly introduced cars, yes. So, in the next decade.

      And why, WHY, would they get out of India, it's an emerging market. If anything, they should buy out a home brand that is successful and rebrand GM in India.
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    12. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 09:14 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Isn't this the second time GM left the South African market? Pretty sure they left in '85 and came back a decade later.
      Apartheid?

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      05-19-2017 09:21 AM #13
      GM also said it is in discussions with PSA Groupe, which has agreed to purchase Opel in Europe, to purchase or acquire the Opel brand in South Africa.
      I thought PSA purchased Opel as a whole meaning they own the marque everywhere, no?

    14. Member robr2's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 09:38 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      After the current run of freshly introduced cars, yes. So, in the next decade.

      And why, WHY, would they get out of India, it's an emerging market. If anything, they should buy out a home brand that is successful and rebrand GM in India.
      GM has decided to refocus on markets where it is profitable and are no longer chasing market share. Further, Chevy sales in India have dropped from 111K units in 2011 to under 29K units last year. GM will keep a technical center as well as an export only factory in India so it's possible they could come back.

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      05-19-2017 12:16 PM #15
      I find this thread existentially challenging.
      The above post may contain opinions, coarse language, offensive terms, spelling mistakes, and/or improper grammar. You have been warned.

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      05-19-2017 02:31 PM #16
      Seems like a solid move. Cut the fat, keep a foothold, focus on what is working; this appears to be GM's current strategy, a complete 180 from GM of yore.
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      05-19-2017 04:11 PM #17
      GM is pulling out of these markets because they are not profitable. This is smart business. Especially since the industry is starting it's cyclical downturn.
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    18. Member WhitePoloCT's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 05:46 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      South Africa is returning to third world status
      When did we leave 3rd world status?

      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      and will soon be in civil war, if Jacob Zuma (idiot) seizes the lands from the Boer farmers there will be mass starvation and race wars. Yeah it's pretty dire in ZA and I look for more and more carmakers to pull out soon.
      Not really though.
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      05-19-2017 05:51 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by DJMRDARK View Post
      GM is pulling out of these markets because they are not profitable. This is smart business. Especially since the industry is starting it's cyclical downturn.
      This.

      Some of you naysayers obviously haven't been paying attention to these markets lately. The only BRIC that has amounted to anything is China.

      BTW... it's not so much a cyclical downturn (in the traditional sense) as it is a plateauing, which is due to pent-up sales post recession ending. Anybody who thought we should be selling or continuing to sell... is on drugs.
      Last edited by uncleho; 05-19-2017 at 05:57 PM.

    20. Member Activ8's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 11:43 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      This.

      Some of you naysayers obviously haven't been paying attention to these markets lately. The only BRIC that has amounted to anything is China.

      BTW... it's not so much a cyclical downturn (in the traditional sense) as it is a plateauing, which is due to pent-up sales post recession ending. Anybody who thought we should be selling or continuing to sell... is on drugs.
      Correction. The only BRIC that has amounted to anything for GM is China. India has now surpassed France in terms of nominal GDP and unit (vehicular) volume and can be a huge market if they'd stayed put and had the sense to cater to market needs. If you want to be a 'global' car company and the only market you sell in is the US, then your future is assured dire. Europe, India, Japan are huge markets, but GM simply doesn't know what and how to sell there. There are many market players that make decent money in all of those 3. In China too, GM's volumes are a whitewash - they're all built in collaboration with SAIC (51% partner). The day SAIC and FAW decide to go it alone with their Baojun · Wuling · Jiefang brands, GM China is done and over with. Technical knowhow and engineering capability are being developed by the locals through the joint venture. The party can also switch from buying GM vehicles from government use overnight just like they switched from Audi to GM.

      GM though, has bungled their way in the India market since their entry in 1996-97. First they entered with the expensive, but an older generation Opel Astra giving the appearance of ridding unsold European junk. Selling 'German' engineering at high prices in a market than didn't have many decent roads was not the only misstep. Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge made cars in India earlier (and only exited in the late 1950's when India started to close its markets). Those brands had huge name recall apart from being much cheaper platforms to produce and sell. At the time (90's), folks there still associated vehicle size with price and a Chevy would've done much better than a compact Opel. By the time GM realized its folly and made Chevy its worldwide mass market brand, it was already late - GM India had lost goodwill because the market associated it with high cost and unreliable products. Even so, India was still a huge opportunity. The takeover of Daewoo allowed GM to market cars specifically suited to the demand and sales rose year-on-year. Then the company bunged up aftersales and had too few dealers to make inroads vs competitors like Hyundai. That was followed by the proliferation of Japanese OEM models specifically designed for the SEAsian and Indian markets (Honda City, Toyota Innova, Nissan Sunny) which GM didn't even bother competing against. Ford has done well by comparison in India and continues to sell there. And until now, we've not even considered the market dominance of players like Suzuki which had a considerable headstart and compact small cars that make India a challenging and low-margin market.

    21. Member Car Problems's Avatar
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      05-20-2017 01:00 PM #21
      If GM is not in europe why are they sponsoring the Manchester United team?

    22. Member robr2's Avatar
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      05-20-2017 02:55 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Car Problems View Post
      If GM is not in europe why are they sponsoring the Manchester United team?
      GM Global Marketing head Joel Ewanik signed a 7 year, £25 million deal to sponsor ManU's kit through 2021. The premise was that Chevy was going to be a global brand and a sponsorship with ManU - another global brand - made sense. He was fired less than 2 months later because he agreed to pay almost 30% more than Aon was, the agreement wasn't going to start for at 2 years, and he didn't give his superiors the full details of the deal.

      Basically GM is stuck paying to advertise a brand that isn't sold in many of the markets the exposure is in. The positive side is that the roster all have to drive Malibus instead of Range Rovers.

    23. Senior Member
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      05-22-2017 10:34 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Activ8 View Post
      Correction. The only BRIC that has amounted to anything for GM is China. India has now surpassed France in terms of nominal GDP and unit (vehicular) volume and can be a huge market if they'd stayed put and had the sense to cater to market needs. If you want to be a 'global' car company and the only market you sell in is the US, then your future is assured dire. Europe, India, Japan are huge markets, but GM simply doesn't know what and how to sell there. There are many market players that make decent money in all of those 3. In China too, GM's volumes are a whitewash - they're all built in collaboration with SAIC (51% partner). The day SAIC and FAW decide to go it alone with their Baojun · Wuling · Jiefang brands, GM China is done and over with. Technical knowhow and engineering capability are being developed by the locals through the joint venture. The party can also switch from buying GM vehicles from government use overnight just like they switched from Audi to GM.

      GM though, has bungled their way in the India market since their entry in 1996-97. First they entered with the expensive, but an older generation Opel Astra giving the appearance of ridding unsold European junk. Selling 'German' engineering at high prices in a market than didn't have many decent roads was not the only misstep. Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge made cars in India earlier (and only exited in the late 1950's when India started to close its markets). Those brands had huge name recall apart from being much cheaper platforms to produce and sell. At the time (90's), folks there still associated vehicle size with price and a Chevy would've done much better than a compact Opel. By the time GM realized its folly and made Chevy its worldwide mass market brand, it was already late - GM India had lost goodwill because the market associated it with high cost and unreliable products. Even so, India was still a huge opportunity. The takeover of Daewoo allowed GM to market cars specifically suited to the demand and sales rose year-on-year. Then the company bunged up aftersales and had too few dealers to make inroads vs competitors like Hyundai. That was followed by the proliferation of Japanese OEM models specifically designed for the SEAsian and Indian markets (Honda City, Toyota Innova, Nissan Sunny) which GM didn't even bother competing against. Ford has done well by comparison in India and continues to sell there. And until now, we've not even considered the market dominance of players like Suzuki which had a considerable headstart and compact small cars that make India a challenging and low-margin market.
      I beg to differ... at least on some of your remarks.

      Ford is hardly better in India.
      https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/...bout-indi.aspx

      The reality is that big players like GM (or Ford) have big pressure from their home market stock markets. In an age of 'you must match tech companies' share prices... regardless whether they make profit or not'... old, established players must make tough decision as they get pressured to not just be... average or "make decent money"... within quarters vs years.

      Without a doubt GM obviously doesn't know what to do in order to be a larger player there and make better than average profit, but for once in its life... it actually admitted as much and is pulling out instead of pouring money down the drain. There are enough places they can be investing if the potential return is better... so they're doing so. And it sounds like Ford is thinking the same. That sucks for India, but what sucks more? GM and/or Ford pulling out and giving the remaining players a better chance of improving their likely pitiful margins or them staying put and everybody running that rat race to the bottom... desperate for a halfway healthy profit?

      When I look vehicle sales since early 2000's in India up until now... it seems like there is a clear plateauing for the last several years and that is what has concerned GM... if not other foreign makes. India is as emerging as any other and that means economy cars (low margins to start with). Obviously they didn't nickel and dime their products there enough (which seems a weird suggestion when one considers all of the pissing and moaning at boards like this when MFRS do just that), but that is a lessons learned that strategies like ONE FORD may save money in mature markets, but not emerging markets where you can't decontent enough.

      In China... every big player is winning with JVs and there is not choice. If there are potentials that they lose once the umbilical is cut then that holds true for everybody... not just GM, so I'm not sure of your remarks there. GM might not make the biggest profits there, but at least they can make a profit unlike places like India. Will there be challenges still to come? Hellz yeah, but that's the nature of that market. But it'll also be shared by their peers.

      If GM can't get its act together in whatever market... it needs to cut loose. Do I think they're being a trifle to quick to do so? Sort of. It pisses me off that they invest as much as they do, but at the same time... if the ROI isn't there... at least now... then why continue?

    24. Senior Member dubdaze68's Avatar
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      05-22-2017 10:58 AM #24
      I do sort of hate that the stock markets have completely gone away from the idea that there may be dips in profit from investing in the future, short term loss, long term gain. And the fact that the Market is based more on ideas than actual product and profit. You would think that the .com boom and bust would have been a lesson.

      And I guess you're right. No matter how much you decontent a Fiesta, it is still miles more expensive than a TATA Nano. Maybe the "emerging" part of India's economy really has plateau'ed.
      DCIVW
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