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    1. 05-18-2017 01:16 PM #26
      I usually try to make a personal connection as quick as I can to get the seller comfortable with me, once I gain their trust I can more lightheartedly negotiate a deal. I've found that most people, especially in the south, don't want to be hardballed and a lot of times rather take less from someone they like than more from some *******.

      When I worked in sales I used basically the same technique and it always worked for me. But as always, you had to be able to read people and make adjustments on the fly since not everyone is the same.

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    3. 05-18-2017 02:04 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by jepva View Post
      I have a friend who is always telling me about the great deals he finds from the private party / craigslist crowd (as well as driving around and seeing cars for sale sitting around). One of his main tactics is to make a low ball offer, and then he creates fake e-mail accounts, and sends even more lowball offers to the seller. This way, the seller's expectations get lowered and his offer suddenly seems pretty good. Combine that with showing up with cash, and he's had a lot of sellers cave in to his price.

      Now, there is obviously some finesse and work involved to doing this right as to not tip the seller off, but he takes his time and does his research and doesn't ever rush things.

      Personally, I've never done this as I think it's borderline sketchy, but I guess anything goes in the world of negotiations.
      This isn't borderline, it's unethical. Your friend is loser when it comes to this stuff.

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      05-18-2017 02:18 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by whalemingo View Post
      You're probably not, but this post makes you sound like a pompous ass. I usually let "hardasses" like you walk away. I the negotiation is going to be such an issue I can't imagine the hell that follow on the close of the deal. I just sold my GLI, today actually, and what I did with him is obviously set the initial asking price. Then he asked me that same question about what I would take, I told him to make me an offer. As soon as you speak in a negotiation you lose. No one buys the not interested shtick, if you weren't that interested you wouldn't be there. I let him set the parameters of the ball park and we make a deal in the middle. You know you made a good deal when no one is happy but everyone is satisfied.
      Nope, not at all. I'm very down to earth and honest about my thought process, I express what I like about it, but I'm never desperate to do a deal. I want a buyer to understand how I'm arriving at my figure, not just throwing out a lowball.

      It's a dialogue; there's no 'this is my price, take it or leave it'. But if they are set at their price and that figure isn't what I'm comfortable paying? Then I say, hey, feel free to think about it and let me know if you'd like to talk further.

      I've almost always ended up closing a deal at a price we mutually agree is fair using these tactics--something I can't say for the legions of CL idiots who send you the, "<$ 50% of your asking price> CASH today leme kno" emails.

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      05-18-2017 03:46 PM #29
      When I bought my current ****box, we were actually stopping by on the way home from dinner, so my wife and daughter were with me. My wife and I already discussed prices, market values, so she had an idea what the car would be worth as much as I did. I drove the car, and while I was out, my wife was bonding with the seller's wife, they worked for the same healthcare system. By the time I got back, the two gals had already talked price, depending on if I liked the car or not. They settled on what was actually a good, reasonable, fair price, based on the conversations I had with my wife previously. I said I liked the car, we all shook hands, she and my wife hugged, and we settled the money the next day at the seller's bank to clear the lein on the car. Easiest negotiation I never had to make.
      Quote Originally Posted by jamie@vwvortex
      I'm not grouping everyone together - I would have said everyone in this forum is a moron.

    6. Member hushypushy's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 04:07 PM #30
      I think every private party used car sale really works on a case by case basis; it depends on the price of the car, what it is (i.e. rarity of model, color, options, etc), and who you're buying it from (enthusiast, original owner, non-car person, etc).

      But there is one important rule that can be used in almost every case: cash in hand. People are way more willing to make a move when there is green money right in their face. If you have to work out some sort of later meeting that may or may not involve cash, there will be some hesitation (on both sides, potentially).

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      This isn't borderline, it's unethical. Your friend is loser when it comes to this stuff.
      Is there a rule written down, or an agreement among men, that says you are only allowed to send one email offer per Craigslist ad? I don't see anything "wrong", morally or ethically, with what that dude is doing.

      However, I do agree that he sounds like a loser, because that is a really stupid waste of time technique. If I got twelve emails offering ~$5000 for my Boxster on an $8500 OBO ad, that would have exactly zero effect on making me accept the $7000 that I want. That guy needs to learn that correlation does not imply causation; just because he's been able to buy cars after sending fake emails doesn't mean that the fake emails are what enabled the purchase.
      Want even more hushypushy? Automotive photography and journalism for the sophisticated gearhead: Star Road. [Updated 4/29]

    7. 05-18-2017 05:20 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      Is there a rule written down, or an agreement among men, that says you are only allowed to send one email offer per Craigslist ad? I don't see anything "wrong", morally or ethically, with what that dude is doing.

      However, I do agree that he sounds like a loser, because that is a really stupid waste of time technique. If I got twelve emails offering ~$5000 for my Boxster on an $8500 OBO ad, that would have exactly zero effect on making me accept the $7000 that I want. That guy needs to learn that correlation does not imply causation; just because he's been able to buy cars after sending fake emails doesn't mean that the fake emails are what enabled the purchase.
      Treat people how you would want to be treated. Pretending to be a multitude of people who don't exist and using what amount to a form of pressure tactics, by generating false information, is unethical. If a dealership was caught doing that, you better believe they'd be roasted publicly and perhaps even challenged legally.

      It doesn't pass the ethical test of "would I be willing to tell everyone involved I was doing it".

    8. Member hushypushy's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 07:00 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      Treat people how you would want to be treated. Pretending to be a multitude of people who don't exist and using what amount to a form of pressure tactics, by generating false information, is unethical. If a dealership was caught doing that, you better believe they'd be roasted publicly and perhaps even challenged legally.

      It doesn't pass the ethical test of "would I be willing to tell everyone involved I was doing it".
      I think you're confusing acting stupidly with acting dishonorably. And now you're trying to act like it's illegal as well..?

      Oh, and on a side note, the motto in any customer-facing environment is, "Treat other people how they want to be treated." Treating people how you want to be treated doesn't always work great, especially when you work at a dealership.
      Want even more hushypushy? Automotive photography and journalism for the sophisticated gearhead: Star Road. [Updated 4/29]

    9. 05-18-2017 07:39 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      I think you're confusing acting stupidly with acting dishonorably. And now you're trying to act like it's illegal as well..?

      Oh, and on a side note, the motto in any customer-facing environment is, "Treat other people how they want to be treated." Treating people how you want to be treated doesn't always work great, especially when you work at a dealership.
      Fine. I'll replace "treat people how you want to be treated" with "be respectful and honest". Fabricating information in an attempt to mislead someone about the value of their vehicle isn't honest.

      You're being obtuse for the sake of holding your point. I mentioned the dealership and a legal challenge in this circumstance because it wouldn't hold up under scrutiny. Do you sincerely think that if a major dealership, lets say the one you worked at, created piles of fake email accounts and corresponded with a customer with fake information during a transaction, in order to try and either drive down the value of their trade in, or increase the value of their sale, people would think "That's a legitimate tactic for salespeople to use".\

      Just because you think it wouldn't work on you, because of your car knowledge and opinion on your ability to negotiate, doesn't mean an underhanded tactic like that can't tip the deck on those who are less experienced.

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      05-18-2017 09:04 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      Is there a rule written down, or an agreement among men, that says you are only allowed to send one email offer per Craigslist ad? I don't see anything "wrong", morally or ethically, with what that dude is doing.
      Only one offer per ad, no. But that's not what the tactic was doing.

      There is a difference between sending someone several offers, or even a repeated offer, in an attempt to wear them down.

      It's another thing entirely to send them an offer, then invent someone new to send them a lower offer, to generate the impression that multiple people think their car/truck/boat/whatever is worth less than it is.

      The latter is the equivalent of someone writing false "customer testimonies" for a business, good or bad, to sway others' opinions of them. It's an unethical misrepresentation of the situation for personal gain.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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      05-18-2017 09:09 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      Fine. I'll replace "treat people how you want to be treated" with "be respectful and honest". Fabricating information in an attempt to mislead someone about the value of their vehicle isn't honest.

      You're being obtuse for the sake of holding your point. I mentioned the dealership and a legal challenge in this circumstance because it wouldn't hold up under scrutiny. Do you sincerely think that if a major dealership, lets say the one you worked at, created piles of fake email accounts and corresponded with a customer with fake information during a transaction, in order to try and either drive down the value of their trade in, or increase the value of their sale, people would think "That's a legitimate tactic for salespeople to use".\

      Just because you think it wouldn't work on you, because of your car knowledge and opinion on your ability to negotiate, doesn't mean an underhanded tactic like that can't tip the deck on those who are less experienced.
      Well, no one's forcing the other party to take any deal. It's no different from real estate negotiations, sometimes whoever shows up with the most cash first is who wins, and sometimes the seller's agent might be lying about there being multiple offers and it forces people to go higher. It's really no different (regardless of the people being fake). Unethical...I think that's where it's a grey area. Dishonest/misleading? Sure. But if you don't have the balls to hold out and wait for the right offer, it's your loss. Also, dealers get away with far more than you would think, I wouldn't put them on any pedestal above private party buyers/sellers when it comes to shadiness.
      Last edited by jepva; 05-18-2017 at 09:11 PM.

    12. 05-18-2017 09:36 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by jepva View Post
      Well, no one's forcing the other party to take any deal. It's no different from real estate negotiations, sometimes whoever shows up with the most cash first is who wins, and sometimes the seller's agent might be lying about there being multiple offers and it forces people to go higher. It's really no different (regardless of the people being fake). Unethical...I think that's where it's a grey area. Dishonest/misleading? Sure. But if you don't have the balls to hold out and wait for the right offer, it's your loss. Also, dealers get away with far more than you would think, I wouldn't put them on any pedestal above private party buyers/sellers when it comes to shadiness.
      This would be a breach of the agent's responsibility to negotiate in good faith and would certainly violate their code of ethics and could be grounds for them to lose their license.

    13. Member hushypushy's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 10:27 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      Fabricating information in an attempt to mislead someone about the value of their vehicle isn't honest.
      Have you ever bought or sold anything? Every offer is an attempt to mislead someone about the value of the product being bought or sold. That's the point of making an offer. Apparently this idiot we're talking about figured "the more the merrier!" but unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that.

      It's not like this guy exists in a vacuum. Let's say he wants to buy an $8500 car. Just because he emailed $4000 twelve times doesn't make his "real" lowball of $6000 the highest offer in the inbox. What if someone else emails and says $7000? Or what if it's---actually going back on topic alert!!--an actual serious buyer who doesn't just lowball a price but says, "here's my phone number please call me."

      If you think making offers is dishonest, then okay. Morality is a personal concept. You might also think it's immoral to drive 66 mph in a 65 or smoke marijuana, but at that point it's just your opinion.

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      You're being obtuse for the sake of holding your point. I mentioned the dealership and a legal challenge in this circumstance because it wouldn't hold up under scrutiny. Do you sincerely think that if a major dealership, lets say the one you worked at, created piles of fake email accounts and corresponded with a customer with fake information during a transaction, in order to try and either drive down the value of their trade in, or increase the value of their sale, people would think "That's a legitimate tactic for salespeople to use".\
      I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't like the straw men arguments that keep popping up. You can't just say this is unethical "because it's just like [names unethical practice]".

      Your example doesn't really make sense, since dealerships already start with the super lowball offer

      No dealership would ever do that, because it's a stupid idea--not because it's illegal.

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      Just because you think it wouldn't work on you, because of your car knowledge and opinion on your ability to negotiate, doesn't mean an underhanded tactic like that can't tip the deck on those who are less experienced.
      Sure, but that's the point, isn't it? And it's your decision to make a moral judgment and label this as "underhanded". Think about poker. Is it immoral to bluff, or is that just a strategy?

      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      Only one offer per ad, no. But that's not what the tactic was doing.

      There is a difference between sending someone several offers, or even a repeated offer, in an attempt to wear them down.

      It's another thing entirely to send them an offer, then invent someone new to send them a lower offer, to generate the impression that multiple people think their car/truck/boat/whatever is worth less than it is.

      The latter is the equivalent of someone writing false "customer testimonies" for a business, good or bad, to sway others' opinions of them. It's an unethical misrepresentation of the situation for personal gain.
      Did you read this post before you hit submit?

      Why is spam unethical? Why is it "another thing entirely"? You can't just say "It's just like [names an unethical practice]!"
      Last edited by hushypushy; 05-18-2017 at 10:29 PM.
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    14. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      05-18-2017 10:55 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      Have you ever bought or sold anything? Every offer is an attempt to mislead someone about the value of the product being bought or sold. That's the point of making an offer.
      No. Every offer is an attempt to convince them to accept your valuation instead of their own. Big difference.

      Persuasion != deception

      Seller comes to some value, based on their knowledge. This sets their asking.

      Buyer comes up with a different value, makes an offer.

      Seller evaluates the options and accepts or rejects the alternate value.

      The buyer can try to convince them that they have the more accurate valuation, or that the time/situation makes their offer a worthwhile compromise.

      This is all fine.

      But if the buyer attempts to falsify the information the seller is using to evaluate the situation it's not ethical. Maybe not outright illegal, but it is dishonorable and dishonest and by extension unethical. It's a deliberate, dishonest distortion of the market for purely personal gain.

      "I already have other offers" when you have nothing of the sort is in the same zone.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    15. 05-18-2017 11:00 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      Have you ever bought or sold anything? Every offer is an attempt to mislead someone about the value of the product being bought or sold. That's the point of making an offer. Apparently this idiot we're talking about figured "the more the merrier!" but unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that.

      If you believe every offer is an attempt to mislead someone, that's pretty much all I need to know on how you approach any sales situation.

      There were perfectly reasonable analogies used to try and clarify why myself and others thought the behaviour was unacceptable, you labelled them straw men. Because you "play the game" for a living, you're unlikely to think it's a problem. We'll have to agree to disagree.

      Spam is illegal in many countries BTW.

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      05-18-2017 11:58 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      Persuasion != deception
      Maybe, maybe not, but that still doesn't make spam unethical.

      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      But if the buyer attempts to falsify the information the seller is using to evaluate the situation it's not ethical.
      Gotta admit, I love how you phrased that.

      If this guy somehow knows how to falsify everyone else's email offers, plus Kelly Blue Book, Cars.com, and every ad on Craigslist, that would be pretty impressive!

      ...and if (big if) the seller only relies on one idiot's lowballs to evaluate the situation, I don't feel bad for them. Why does morality need to enter into a question of stupidity?

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      If you believe every offer is an attempt to mislead someone, that's pretty much all I need to know on how you approach any sales situation.
      Well, when you buy a car, you want to make someone believe that it's worth less than they are asking for it, so you make an offer. Isn't that misleading someone?

      Do you just say, "First of all, I think your price is fair, but I still want to pay less"? Of course not; that's just not how it works. Call it misleading someone, or you might even call it deceiving someone.

      If those words are too harsh for you, maybe just call it "persuasion". Yeah, that sounds about right: Making an offer is "fabricating information in an attempt to persuade someone about the value of their vehicle."

      But this is really about someone sending a few extra email offers to Craigslist ads, and I can't believe you're so morally offended by it

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      There were perfectly reasonable analogies used to try and clarify why myself and others thought the behaviour was unacceptable, you labelled them straw men. Because you "play the game" for a living, you're unlikely to think it's a problem. We'll have to agree to disagree.
      Well, I definitely think it's stupid, wouldn't do it, wouldn't encourage anyone else to do it, and wouldn't want someone to do that to me. However, I still don't think it's an unethical tactic, nor am I so morally bothered by it the way you are.

      Your analogies are an attempt to blow this guy's behavior way out of proportion, and I simply think they are not appropriately constructed.

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      Spam is illegal in many countries BTW.
      Driving 66mph in a 65 is also illegal. What's your point?

      Is everything that is unethical also illegal? Is everything that is illegal also unethical?
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      05-19-2017 08:05 AM #41
      Creating multiple personalities and email addresses in order to send multiple fake offers to a seller is unethical and slimey.
      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

      I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."

    18. 05-19-2017 08:43 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      Maybe, maybe not, but that still doesn't make spam unethical.



      Gotta admit, I love how you phrased that.

      If this guy somehow knows how to falsify everyone else's email offers, plus Kelly Blue Book, Cars.com, and every ad on Craigslist, that would be pretty impressive!

      ...and if (big if) the seller only relies on one idiot's lowballs to evaluate the situation, I don't feel bad for them. Why does morality need to enter into a question of stupidity?



      Well, when you buy a car, you want to make someone believe that it's worth less than they are asking for it, so you make an offer. Isn't that misleading someone?

      Do you just say, "First of all, I think your price is fair, but I still want to pay less"? Of course not; that's just not how it works. Call it misleading someone, or you might even call it deceiving someone.

      If those words are too harsh for you, maybe just call it "persuasion". Yeah, that sounds about right: Making an offer is "fabricating information in an attempt to persuade someone about the value of their vehicle."

      But this is really about someone sending a few extra email offers to Craigslist ads, and I can't believe you're so morally offended by it



      Well, I definitely think it's stupid, wouldn't do it, wouldn't encourage anyone else to do it, and wouldn't want someone to do that to me. However, I still don't think it's an unethical tactic, nor am I so morally bothered by it the way you are.

      Your analogies are an attempt to blow this guy's behavior way out of proportion, and I simply think they are not appropriately constructed.



      Driving 66mph in a 65 is also illegal. What's your point?

      Is everything that is unethical also illegal? Is everything that is illegal also unethical?
      You're talking out of both sides of your mouth in this post both criticizing and defending the behavior.

      You equating someone fabricating multiple bogus offers to a person engaged in a sale making a genuine offer is false equivalence and you're aware of it.

      If I make an offer on a car to a person I say I am prepared to pay X for the car, for my clearly stated reasons. If they believe, given my explanation, that they are willing to accept it, cool. In no way is that misleading someone.

      The real estate example someone provided is very similar. You are injecting additional, knowingly false, information into the negotiation to try and benefit yourself. If a realtor did that, and was discovered, there would be ground for them to lose their license. The stakes may not be as high, but the behavior is the same.

      I'm also not morally offended. I said it's an unethical. It's an unethical way to conduct business with someone. My bar for conduct appears to be higher than yours in this situation. You don't seem to expect people to be completely honest with you when conducting a transaction.

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      05-19-2017 08:44 AM #43
      i always show up with the truck and trailer, cash in the amount that I'm willing to pay for the car, and a bill of sale. I'm surprised at how many people selling a car don't have the time to print out one.

      then its easy, test drive see if i like it chat for a little bit then start to talk turkey. i got cash, trailer, we sign now and car is gone now no coming back to get it, no can i borrow your plates to drive it home load it up and its gone.
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      05-19-2017 01:00 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      I'm also not morally offended. I said it's an unethical. It's an unethical way to conduct business with someone. My bar for conduct appears to be higher than yours in this situation.
      Nice, I like how you threw in a little "oh and by the way, I have better morals than you because I think something is unethical that you don't." Classy.

      Not everything has to be a moral dilemma, and the world is not as black and white as you want to make it seem. Just because someone doesn't act like a role model doesn't mean they're being unethical. Just because someone does something stupid doesn't mean they're being unethical.

      I hate when people cut me off on the highway just to drive slow in front of me--that's not exactly exemplary behavior, right? I would never do that. But I wouldn't call that immoral or unethical behavior--I might say it was disrespectful or rude or stupid.

      Maybe email guy is being disrespectful, rude, and stupid. Yet despite not liking or approving of his behavior, I don't feel the need to assign a moral weight to this situation like you do. I think that's what this entire discussion boils down to, and it seems that we simply have different perspectives on that particular fine point.

      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      You don't seem to expect people to be completely honest with you when conducting a transaction.
      Well...of course not!

      That doesn't mean that I choose to act dishonestly, but you are exactly right: I never expect a stranger to be completely honest (especially when it comes to money).

      If you were eating lunch by yourself in a cafe with your ~$4000 worth of camera and lens and needed to use the bathroom, would you get up and leave your camera on the table? I sure as hell wouldn't! If I'm alone, I sling my camera over my shoulder and drag it into the bathroom with me.

      I consider it both immoral and unethical to steal someone else's property, and stealing someone else's camera is not a thought that would even cross my mind. Yet, I don't expect other people to be completely honest in that situation. Do you?

      And if you really and truly expect everyone you every deal with to be 100% completely honest in every transaction you ever do for the rest of your life, then you are very naive.
      Want even more hushypushy? Automotive photography and journalism for the sophisticated gearhead: Star Road. [Updated 4/29]

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      05-19-2017 02:16 PM #45
      personally, i've always been upfront with people about what the car is listed for versus what I'm willing to part with it for. I know what the car is worth and i'm not going to tolerate lowballers, so I generally ignore them.

      when buying a car, i'll be upfront during my initial phone call (usually at the tail end of the call) in asking if the seller is flexible on price. I'm not going to press them or disagree, it's just going to factor into my decision to spend my time looking at the car. if someone wants way too much and the car meets my specs, i'll call ask my typical 20 questions and one of them is can you deal. if they're not willing to deal, walk away. i will always say, "okay, thanks for letting me know, i may want to make you an offer, but want to make sure we aren't wasting each others time." both sides of the transaction don't want to be annoyed by failing to be upfront.

      when i see the car in person, i try to build a little rapport, check the car out in detail, then make a fair offer. i'm not the guy that walks around the car and points out every little issue, but if it has major issues i usually walk away or tell them i can't make a fair offer. since i don't usually buy garbage cars, it's a fairly straightforward process.
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    22. 05-19-2017 02:24 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      Nice, I like how you threw in a little "oh and by the way, I have better morals than you because I think something is unethical that you don't." Classy.
      Relax. I said that in THIS circumstance I have a higher expectation of conduct than you do. You actually agree with me later in your post that my expectation for how people conduct themselves are higher than yours for financial transactions.

      Your non-transaction examples of traffic and theft aren't relevant. Outright theft of property and piloting a vehicle do not represent the same kind of situation. Didn't you accuse me of straw-manning?


      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      And if you really and truly expect everyone you every deal with to be 100% completely honest in every transaction you ever do for the rest of your life, then you are very naive.
      Setting expectations, and having expectations of people, doesn't mean I'm some sort of rube that thinks everyone is an angel. It does mean that if you fail to meet those expectation I'm unlikely to deal with you. If I found out my realtor told people looking to buy my house that we had offers that didn't exist I'd terminate them on the spot. If I found out that one of my subordinates was creating fake emails in an attempt to get a vendor to give us a better price or more time, I'd terminate them on the spot. I'm willing to bet if your dealership found out you had a strategy of using fake emails and offers to try and "persuade", as you put it, your customers to buy or sell, they would terminate you.

    23. A beautiful Summer's Eve Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 03:08 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      Relax. I said that in THIS circumstance I have a higher expectation of conduct than you do. You actually agree with me later in your post that my expectation for how people conduct themselves are higher than yours for financial transactions.

      Your non-transaction examples of traffic and theft aren't relevant. Outright theft of property and piloting a vehicle do not represent the same kind of situation. Didn't you accuse me of straw-manning?




      Setting expectations, and having expectations of people, doesn't mean I'm some sort of rube that thinks everyone is an angel. It does mean that if you fail to meet those expectation I'm unlikely to deal with you. If I found out my realtor told people looking to buy my house that we had offers that didn't exist I'd terminate them on the spot. If I found out that one of my subordinates was creating fake emails in an attempt to get a vendor to give us a better price or more time, I'd terminate them on the spot. I'm willing to bet if your dealership found out you had a strategy of using fake emails and offers to try and "persuade", as you put it, your customers to buy or sell, they would terminate you.


      Damn, that's pretty extreme. I'd just cut off their right hand.

      On this whole emailing fake offers thing...it's a stupid waste of time, and an ineffective tactic. If the goal is to try and prove to the seller that he's overvaluing his car, it's an easy thing to debunk. "Show me where this mythical car is that's just like mine for that price, and I'll be willing to talk. If you can't, kindly go **** yourself." If 500 people emailed me low comps, I'd copy and paste that 500 times.

      Is it slimy? Sure. Unethical? Depends on your own moral compass. It's no different to me than all of the stupid white lies people say when they devalue a car in person. "Oh man, that's going to cost like $800 to fix, so I need a price reduction" knowing damn well that you'll either live with the issue, or fix it cheaper.

      Lets face it. People act shifty when dealing with strangers and money. I don't trust anyone, because I've been lied to more times than I can even remember. Even when I sold my E39, I heard all of the same crap, got the same lowballs, and copy and pasted back basically what I said above without the genitals in the anus reference.

      What works private party? Have 3-5 options that you want, don't mentally marry yourself to any of them, and if you can't get one for under market value, pass on it until you can. It's pretty simple stuff. No smoke and mirrors needed, as all tactics are BS is easily identified when you've sold stuff long enough.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by bothhandsplease View Post
      Brendan told me to get the best discount, I had to send dick pics. I thought this was standard car buying practice.
      Quote Originally Posted by H.E. Pennypacker View Post
      Brendan and his all knowing heavy breathing baboon are correct.

    24. 05-19-2017 03:23 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post


      Damn, that's pretty extreme. I'd just cut off their right hand.
      I've been working in heavy construction for too long. That's pretty much disciplinary step one. Not a day goes by where we don't terminate at least one person.

    25. A beautiful Summer's Eve Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 03:27 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by PCs & Petroleum View Post
      I've been working in heavy construction for too long. That's pretty much disciplinary step one. Not a day goes by where we don't terminate at least one person.
      Some days you just have to lower the staff into the steel. I get it.

      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by bothhandsplease View Post
      Brendan told me to get the best discount, I had to send dick pics. I thought this was standard car buying practice.
      Quote Originally Posted by H.E. Pennypacker View Post
      Brendan and his all knowing heavy breathing baboon are correct.

    26. Member westsideseal's Avatar
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      05-19-2017 03:47 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      Nope, not at all. I'm very down to earth and honest about my thought process, I express what I like about it, but I'm never desperate to do a deal. I want a buyer to understand how I'm arriving at my figure, not just throwing out a lowball.

      It's a dialogue; there's no 'this is my price, take it or leave it'. But if they are set at their price and that figure isn't what I'm comfortable paying? Then I say, hey, feel free to think about it and let me know if you'd like to talk further.

      I've almost always ended up closing a deal at a price we mutually agree is fair using these tactics--something I can't say for the legions of CL idiots who send you the, "<$ 50% of your asking price> CASH today leme kno" emails.
      As long as you're realistic about it and don't act as if the asking price is meant for brand new car in perfect condition. When I price a car for sale, that price accounts for the things that are wrong with the car. So usually when someone tries to start subtracting for everything wrong with the car, I let them know that's already factored into the price, which is why a perfect condition example is X,000 more than I'm asking. Depending on the kind of car being sold, it's usually easier to let people like you walk and wait for some excited kid to come buy it.

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