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    1. Member Khyron's Avatar
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      02-10-2013 07:39 PM #1



      EDIT: Ripped lower res of the segment. First 5 seconds is garbled then should be ok:


      Toybaru Segment


      Better than I expected with stock tires and damp track:

      01:31.2 BMW 760Li (wet)
      01:31.3 Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
      01:31.3 Vauxhall VXR8 (wet)
      01:31.3 Toyota GT86
      01:31.4 Audi TT Mk.II 2.0T
      01:31.6 Honda NSX-R (wet)
      01:31.8 BMW M3 E46
      01:31.8 BMW 535d
      01:31.8 Nissan 350Z
      01:31.8 Mazda RX-8
      01:31.9 BMW 130i (E87)
      01:32.1 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG (wet)
      01:32.2 Ford Focus RS Mk I0
      01:32.2 Mazda 6 MPS
      Last edited by Khyron; 02-11-2013 at 01:03 PM.

    2. Senior Member patrikman's Avatar
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      02-10-2013 07:47 PM #2
      Hot damn, those lwb V12 7s must be a hoot!
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    3. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      02-10-2013 07:48 PM #3
      Was Clarkson joking about the 86 being shod with Prius tires?
      :gift:

    4. Member Khyron's Avatar
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      02-10-2013 08:19 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      Was Clarkson joking about the 86 being shod with Prius tires?
      In other markets, Toyota has "sport" option packs for the Prius and the Mich primacy are in that group. They are not the stock Prius base tires. But it's a good sound bite.

      Honestly I don't find them that bad and will put them back on the new wheels in the summer (to burn off of course). Certainly better than most all-seasons we get up here from the factory.

    5. Member bmann's Avatar
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      02-10-2013 08:23 PM #5
      Too bad about the video's botched aspect ratio.
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    6. 02-10-2013 08:27 PM #6
      01:31.3 Toyota GT86
      01:31.8 BMW M3 E46
      01:31.8 Nissan 350Z
      01:31.8 Mazda RX-8
      fastest 200hp car ever?...
      Last edited by above8k; 02-10-2013 at 08:37 PM.

    7. Member Short Bus's Avatar
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      02-10-2013 08:31 PM #7
      That's a lot faster than I'd have expected.

    8. 02-10-2013 08:34 PM #8
      Damn not bad.

    9. Junior Member Zaisaroni's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 01:54 AM #9
      I can't imagine it to be faster than the M3? Nearly half the power, nearly half the tire...
      ///
      Hella Functional

    10. Member 4motionvr6dub's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 02:02 AM #10
      I was very surprised by that lap time as well. Then again, a lot are probably rigged.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      The only bags that I worry about handling are attached to Kate Upton's chest.

    11. 02-11-2013 02:11 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Zaisaroni View Post
      I can't imagine it to be faster than the M3? Nearly half the power, nearly half the tire...
      That E46 M3 time was from season 2, with the first Stig at the wheel (who is far slower than the current Stig).

    12. 02-11-2013 08:42 AM #12
      [QUOTE=I can't imagine it to be faster than the M3? Nearly half the power, nearly half the tire...QUOTE]

      The lighter wt on the FRS makes up for all of that.

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      02-11-2013 09:07 AM #13
      [QUOTE=whitealltrac;80716898]
      Quote Originally Posted by I can't imagine it to be faster than the M3? Nearly half the power, nearly half the tire...QUOTE

      The lighter wt on the FRS makes up for all of that.
      Sorta doubt it'll make up for all that...or else Atom would be faster than the Pagani....

    14. Member Ubel GLI's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 09:12 AM #14
      I was surprised by how glowing the review was. I need to spend more time in one I guess

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      02-11-2013 09:14 AM #15
      How many seconds do they say that a wet lap takes off over a dry?

    16. Member Smigelski's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 10:02 AM #16
      Here's the video of the entire episode until it gets taken down. The GT86 segment is the first in the show.

      All in all, I'm very impressed with the review. I didn't learn anything new, but moroe positive reinforcement is good thing.

      It's odd that they didn't put a (W) next the car's lap time. But maybe the lap shown (which was definitely wet) wasn't the one that got the official time?


    17. 02-11-2013 10:39 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Zaisaroni View Post
      I can't imagine it to be faster than the M3? Nearly half the power, nearly half the tire...
      The M3 was on a sort of wet track as well but the track configuration might be a bit different back then.

    18. Junior Member Nerd-Vol's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 10:48 AM #18
      Glad they like it, and I hope it sells well so more manufactures will make cars of this sort.

      There is still something about the GT86 I don't like though. I think it's the price versus what you are getting. I know it's dumb on my part but I just can't let it go.

    19. Junior Member Nerd-Vol's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 10:49 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by C4 A6 View Post
      How many seconds do they say that a wet lap takes off over a dry?
      4 seconds.

    20. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 10:54 AM #20
      The Clarkson smile was creepy.

      I disagree on the plain to look at bit.

    21. Member Smigelski's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 10:59 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-Vol View Post
      Glad they like it, and I hope it sells well so more manufactures will make cars of this sort.

      There is still something about the GT86 I don't like though. I think it's the price versus what you are getting. I know it's dumb on my part but I just can't let it go.
      What the buyer is getting in terms of what? Interior features? Horsepower? Genuinely curious.

      This car makes similar trade-offs as a GTI or WRX. The GTI has more refinement/amenities over performance. The WRX has more acceleration and performance at the cost of the interior. The GT86/BRZ/FR-S puts 'fun to drive' quotient over sheer performance or interior.

      At this price you only get so much of performance/refinement/'fun to drive'/etc. Each car mixes them in different proportions. I'd love a car with the performance of a WRX, refinement of a GTI, and fun-to-drive of a BRZ. That car is a Porsche Cayman.

      I'm not trying to bash you or anything, so please don't take my comments that way. It's okay to feel the way you do. Its hard to justify the BRZ/etc when you can't point to a spec sheet or a nice interior and saythis is what you are paying for. The BRZ is a bit more ethereal than that. And it's hard to quantify - especially from somewhere other than the driver's seat.

    22. Junior Member Nerd-Vol's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:08 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Smigelski View Post
      What the buyer is getting in terms of what? Interior features? Horsepower? Genuinely curious.

      This car makes similar trade-offs as a GTI or WRX. The GTI has more refinement/amenities over performance. The WRX has more acceleration and performance at the cost of the interior. The GT86/BRZ/FR-S puts 'fun to drive' quotient over sheer performance or interior.

      At this price you only get so much of performance/refinement/'fun to drive'/etc. Each car mixes them in different proportions. I'd love a car with the performance of a WRX, refinement of a GTI, and fun-to-drive of a BRZ. That car is a Porsche Cayman.

      I'm not trying to bash you or anything, so please don't take my comments that way. It's okay to feel the way you do. Its hard to justify the BRZ/etc when you can't point to a spec sheet or a nice interior and saythis is what you are paying for. The BRZ is a bit more ethereal than that. And it's hard to quantify - especially from somewhere other than the driver's seat.

      I think a lot of things would be helped if I have spent some seat time in the BRZ/FRS.

      For me it would be very hard for me to the pull the trigger on it.

      If I had $26,000 to drop on a new car I would have to chose between 4 or so cars:

      FRS
      GTI
      MS3
      Mustang V6


      I would be so hard pressed to go with the smallest and least powerful car as my only car. That's why I feel bad though, there is so much more than power when it comes to a car, but I feel like if I bought the FRS, I would feel slightly sad whenever I thought about the V6 mustang I decided against.


      I know the V6, mustang isn't as sharp to drive as the FRS, but from everything I have read, it is competent.

      That dumb part of my brain would says to me that the FRS would be a day one buy if it had 240-250hp and could get to 60mph in the 6 second range. Also the size is an issue. The backseats of the FRS seem pretty useless and with my 6'5" frame, there will be very useless.
      Last edited by Nerd-Vol; 02-11-2013 at 11:13 AM.

    23. Member MVJ1975's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:16 AM #23
      I know what you mean. The V6 Mustang is an excellent car for the money, and with the optional track pack it's one hell of a car.

      For me, the deciding factor was simply the weight/size. The Mustang just feels like a boat to me. I know it's not, and it's not all that heavy for a modern car, but drive the two back to back and you'll see what I mean.

      The other thing was that I don't do my driving on tracks. I drive on roads, and roads have speed limits. I didn't feel like I could genuinely thrash the Mustang on normal roads; it quickly got up to "arrest me" speeds. I felt like I had to baby it around town, something I never felt with the FR-S. You really can sling it around a residential corner at 30mph, and it makes your daily commute a blast.

    24. Junior Member Nerd-Vol's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:24 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by MVJ1975 View Post
      I know what you mean. The V6 Mustang is an excellent car for the money, and with the optional track pack it's one hell of a car.

      For me, the deciding factor was simply the weight/size. The Mustang just feels like a boat to me. I know it's not, and it's not all that heavy for a modern car, but drive the two back to back and you'll see what I mean.

      The other thing was that I don't do my driving on tracks. I drive on roads, and roads have speed limits. I didn't feel like I could genuinely thrash the Mustang on normal roads; it quickly got up to "arrest me" speeds. I felt like I had to baby it around town, something I never felt with the FR-S. You really can sling it around a residential corner at 30mph, and it makes your daily commute a blast.
      Thanks for the insight. That does sound very nice.

      How is it at the highway though? One thing I find really intoxicating about my MS3 is how there is always a ton of torque on demand, so going from 30 to 70mph feels like a rocket ship.

      This whole issue of these cars is likely moot though. Having a dog likely means that I would likely sell the MS3, get a beater, and buy a C4 corvette for screwing around in. I would not want to put my dog in my brand new mustang or FRS.

    25. Member MVJ1975's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:32 AM #25
      You're going to have to do a fair amount of downshifting on the highway. The good news is that the engine is very responsive and the torque does come on quickly. It's definitely going to feel down on power compared to your MS3, though.

    26. Member 8v_gti777's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:40 AM #26
      Sat in one again this weekend at the auto show- the interior's really impressive on these. The driving position, etc.

      As has been said, I wouldn't be able to pay 27k for a BRZ though. It's cool but not seeing it for that price.

    27. Member Ubel GLI's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:50 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 8v_gti777 View Post
      As has been said, I wouldn't be able to pay 27k for a BRZ though. It's cool but not seeing it for that price.
      I was trying to help a friend locate one in CA yesterday and saw a BRZ listed at $33,XXX

      Just buy an STI for that money. They look like a blast to drive but the markup is crazy

    28. Member Smigelski's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 11:53 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubel GLI View Post
      I was trying to help a friend locate one in CA yesterday and saw a BRZ listed at $33,XXX

      Just buy an STI for that money. They look like a blast to drive but the markup is crazy
      Dealers are still marking them up like crazy? Wow. I got mine for under MSRP, and I got the first one at the dealer back in May.

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      02-11-2013 12:50 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-Vol View Post
      I would be so hard pressed to go with the smallest and least powerful car as my only car. That's why I feel bad though, there is so much more than power when it comes to a car, but I feel like if I bought the FRS, I would feel slightly sad whenever I thought about the V6 mustang I decided against.


      I know the V6, mustang isn't as sharp to drive as the FRS, but from everything I have read, it is competent.
      I know the V6 Mustang is a good car, and the new V6 is a good engine, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a V6 Mustang. If I really wanted a Mustang, I'd have to hold out until I had the extra few grand to get the V8. I just feel like I'd kick myself every day for not waiting. It's an awful cycle though. There's generally something better for "just a few grand more."

    30. Junior Member Nerd-Vol's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 12:52 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by N2OInferno View Post
      I know the V6 Mustang is a good car, and the new V6 is a good engine, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a V6 Mustang. If I really wanted a Mustang, I'd have to hold out until I had the extra few grand to get the V8. I just feel like I'd kick myself every day for not waiting. It's an awful cycle though. There's generally something better for "just a few grand more."
      That is also a MAJOR issue. That's why I should just get an old beater and then get a used sports-car.

    31. Member Khyron's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 01:06 PM #31
      Ripped the segment and compressed it a bit, updated original post.

      He certainly seems happy driving the thing.

      I'm 5'8" and carry the kids in the back - but I couldn't do it if I was any taller. 6'+ guys consider it a two seater, at least behind the driver. Though with the seats folded down the cargo space is quite huge.

    32. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 01:12 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-Vol View Post
      Glad they like it, and I hope it sells well so more manufactures will make cars of this sort.
      I'd be very surprised if other manufacturer's aren't planning something for this segment. Toyota/Subaru have it all to themselves and if they were waiting to see how successful this segment would be before putting money into R&D then they certainly got their answer.

      My guess is that in sometime in 2013 we'll hear an announcement about an FRS/BRZ competitor from another manufacturer to be released in 2-3 years time.

    33. Senior Member patrikman's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 01:18 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      I'd be very surprised if other manufacturer's aren't planning something for this segment. Toyota/Subaru have it all to themselves and if they were waiting to see how successful this segment would be before putting money into R&D then they certainly got their answer.

      My guess is that in sometime in 2013 we'll hear an announcement about an FRS/BRZ competitor from another manufacturer to be released in 2-3 years time.
      There seems to be a lot of murmurs about the new Miata/Alfa being much lighter and more nimble. Just sayin.
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    34. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 01:26 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      There seems to be a lot of murmurs about the new Miata/Alfa being much lighter and more nimble. Just sayin.
      I think it's supposed to be a mid-engined car with pricing up in the Cayman territory unfortunately. I was really hoping for an Italian MR-2

    35. Member Ark6's Avatar
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      02-11-2013 01:51 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      I think it's supposed to be a mid-engined car with pricing up in the Cayman territory unfortunately. I was really hoping for an Italian MR-2
      There's also a Miata derivative coming up. I'm looking forward to the 4C more though.

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