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FRS/GT86/BRZ vs Cayman

44K views 111 replies 51 participants last post by  XiaoNio 
#1 ·
















Would have posted in a previous thread but they've turned into 20 page ^&%* measuring contests.

And I'll pre-empt a few comments:

-Too slow
-No torks
-No pass on highway, will dead
-Should have been 250hp/2200lbs/20K

Have fun!
 
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#18 ·
I agree. Sorry but this is magazine bullsh!t. This is the old "pump and dump" in action. They pump up the new hot thing on the block with otherworldly superlatives, and then dump on it later in the year.

If the BRZ, et al is slower than the V6 Mustang and Megane....it is NOT faster than a Cayman.

I'm certain this is a great handling car, in line with the Elise, Evora, Miata, RX-8 and Cayman. But lets be real. But the overall better package is still the Cayman.
 
#4 ·
I was waiting for someone to actually make the direct comparison, rather than just alluding to the Cayman.

Of course it's all subjective, but this sort of thing is a bigger coup than the numbers-based GT-R vs. 911 Turbo rivalry for that very reason. Porsches have always been the subjective choice, the "soul" choice.
 
#54 ·
I'm surprised no one really picked up on this yet.

This is the thing that makes me perk up. Porsches are another car (albeit at another tier entirely) that have always been defended by fans against magazine racers. "They just do things right...you either get them or you don't...greather than the sum of their parts"...etc, etc. They've always been the emotional choice rather than the rational, numbers based choice because they felt right and had something other more powerful, faster, and cheaper competitors lacked. They were special in some way that numbers couldn't explain.

The fact that this car is being described in the same way as the P-cars (i.e. the intangibles) has me very excited.
 
#5 ·
A lot of cars beat the Cayman. I'm sure a Wrangler can handle off-roading better than a G500, but you don't see anyone cross-shopping them.
 
#9 ·
Whoa, whoa, whoa. First I was skeptical the Toyobaru would exist, then I waited with tepid interest, and now I like the car (no experience with one, so not about to sing the song) but, come on, this **** happens every time a new car comes out. Didn't the 370Z bash the Cayman's brains in when it was new and then evvvvvvvvvvvvveryone readily admitted it's heavy, chintzy, and doesn't really perform all that well?

I'm sensing much sensationalist-ishtbull going on here.
 
#21 ·
Didn't the 370Z bash the Cayman's brains in when it was new and then evvvvvvvvvvvvveryone readily admitted it's heavy, chintzy, and doesn't really perform all that well?
Eh, the 370Z is a fantastic car that I'd buy over a Cayman in a heartbeat. About the only glaring flaw in the 370Z is a lack of adequate brake cooling. It's lighter and less chintzy than the 350Z.
 
#10 ·
tl;dr. Did they concentrate on handling, steering, gearbox, etc. things only? Because I imagined the Cayman with more power would perform better in the straight line. Either way, compared to the Cayman, the GT86 is gaudy inside and out. That, plus, a Porsche is a Porsche and a Toyota is a Toyota, so I wouldn't give the GT another look if I was in the market. Naturally the Porsche is more expensive. Still, if my budget was limited to what the GT costs, I'd still buy something else.

Edit: WHAT, the Cayman is 115k AUD and the Toyota is 38k? Quite the difference...
 
#11 · (Edited)
FV-QR

The FRS/86/BRZ debate may end TCL as we know it.

As many have argued it's not perfect, it's not a powerhouse, it doesn't even come with good tires...

However nearly the whole CL would argue there needs to be a RWD "enthusiast" car. And how dare the corporate Automotive conspiracy kill off RWD cars? How dare they kill off the manual gear box??!!!

Yet when major companies hear the cry of the "enthusiast" for more RWD, and more MT, and more tuner friendly motors... then the toilet poised, magazine at hand, numbers-racer show their ugly head.

They'll quote TQ all day, and HP for weeks. They'll compare this review to that review. They'll say that the positive reviews are more damning than the negative reviews. Despite both reviews being so heavy handed to both extremes. They'll ignore what they've wanted, just so they can damn such a weak attempt to charm the enthusiast. The enthusiast of yore that lies inside of them.

It baffles my mind to see so many TCL users try to damn this car from the get-go. To damn a car that answers so many demands of the "enthusiasts" while answering demands of the "fickle" seems so ludicrous to me.

Here is a car that is RWD mated with a MT and is seemingly tuner friendly. Not only that, it is also sub $30k brand new, AND has promising MPG numbers. Yet so many people here want it to fail for no more than some personal vendetta against another username. It seems so silly.

Here is a partnership of two great tuner-friendly companies to give the masses what they've been asking for, only to have that answer shoved back down their throat.

No wonder car manufacturers aren't making "enthusiast" friendly cars any more.

Enthusiasts have turned into a bunch of snobs. Snobs that will always have a demographic that isn't happy; that will nitpick and pull apart all efforts and decisions made on their behalf. No wonder these manufacturers make cars that are boring and that will sell to the mainstream.

Why would a company try to make anything for a group of self destructive know-it-alls who are reminiscent of the 80's-movie prom queen...someone who has everything and wants it all.
 
#15 ·
The FRS/86/BRZ debate may end TCL as we know it.

As many have argued it's not perfect, it's not a powerhouse, it doesn't even come with good tires...

However nearly the whole CL would argue there needs to be a RWD "enthusiast" car. And how dare the corporate Automotive conspiracy kill off RWD cars? How dare they kill off the manual gear box??!!!

Yet when major companies hear the cry of the "enthusiast" for more RWD, and more MT, and more tuner friendly motors... then the toilet poised, magazine at hand, numbers-racer show their ugly head.

They'll quote TQ all day, and HP for weeks. They'll compare this review to that review. They'll say that the positive reviews are more damning than the negative reviews. Despite both reviews being so heavy handed to both extremes. They'll ignore what they've wanted, just so they can damn such a weak attempt to charm the enthusiast. The enthusiast of yore that lies inside of them.

It baffles my mind to see so many TCL users try to damn this car from the get-go. To damn a car that answers so many demands of the "enthusiasts" while answering demands of the "fickle" seems so ludicrous to me.

Here is a car that is RWD mated with a MT and is seemingly tuner friendly. Not only that, it is also sub $30k brand new, AND has promising MPG numbers. Yet so many people here want it to fail for no more than some personal vendetta against another username. It seems so silly.

Here is a partnership of two great tuner-friendly companies to give the masses what they've been asking for, only to have that answer shoved back down their throat.

No wonder car manufacturers aren't making "enthusiast" friendly cars any more.

Enthusiasts have turned into a bunch of snobs. Snobs that will always have a demographic that isn't happy; that will nitpick and pull apart all efforts and decisions made on their behalf. No wonder these manufacturers make cars that are boring and that will sell to the mainstream.

Why would a company try to make anything for a group of self destructive know-it-alls who are reminiscent of the 80's-movie prom queen...someone who has everything and wants it all.
selling cars is a business?

demand...supply...
 
#17 ·
For what it's worth, some earlier reviews were saying the FR-S was the best drive south of a Cayman. It's also been said that an Evora is the best drive south of an F458. And of course there's the GTR/Z06 vs. 911.

Bang for the buck benchmarking happens all the time between cars. It also happens between stereo equipment, TV's, wines, and pretty much... anything at all. I don't see why this is such a big deal.
 
#26 ·
Not to say Porsche's motorsports legacy isn't probably as good as it gets, but c'mon, R&T...



Some 55 years of selling cars in the US, 50 years of racing, and people still insist that Nissan and Toyota don't have motorsports pedigree or heritage.
 
#27 ·
So which one will rot in the ground first? I didn't see that mentioned, and it is on everyone's criteria list for a new car.
 
#30 ·
What BS..Comparing an FR-S to a Cayman is like comparing Kelly Clarkson to Kate Upton. No competition.. and why even bother using the Cayman as its benchmark since its not any faster than a Miata. .
You don't read what you type, do you? :banghead::banghead:
 
#35 ·
As a die-hard Porsche (and Toyota) enthusiast I think it's valid for these comparisons to be made. Porsche can't rest on its laurels and there has to be a challenger out there in order for them to see the competition. At one point I was considering getting a Pontiac Solstice because I was frustrated at the lack of new front-engined 4-cylinder offerings from Porsche. The demise of Pontiac clarified the decision and I got the Boxster instead of the Solstice.

Porsche has to be constantly challenged. It was cars like the Supra, Corvette, and 3000GT that helped to spell the unfortunate end of the (overpriced) 924/944/968. In a few years when the time comes to replace the Boxster there better be a reasonable Porsche offering available. I will be looking at everything on the horizon and making the best decision that I can. Maybe it will be a Toyota? Who knows?

obin :beer::beer:
 
#41 ·
It is a good thing for them to have competition out there to best. That said, other than generally making cars that will last and have good parts availability for a really long time, cars not intended to be thrown away, Porsches have always made a bad value proposition. I love 924/944/968s, for example, but even when they were new there were options from Mazda, Nissan, and Toyota that were arguably just as good, and were and are significantly cheaper.

I love the BRZ/FR-S, and I love Porsches. I think any reason for me to buy a Boxster or Cayman over a BRZ would be an emotional one and not a logical one, as the more affordable, slightly less performing car will almost always make more "sense."
 
#38 ·
Do I believe the hype? No. The magazine didn't go into what made the GT86 better than the Cayman well enough to make me believe it. All of the videos I have seen make the car look way more prone to snap rebounding than a Porsche Cayman. They also rotate farther forward than a Cayman.

On the other hand, the review makes me want to give the GT86 more of a chance.
 
#39 ·
Maybe the Toyobaru will make other makes rethink this segment.
Hyundai made VW/Ford/Honda/GM/Toyota rethink their entry level segment. Era of plain,bare bone, ugly cars is over. They had to compete w loaded Sonatas and Accents for price of $17-$22k.
Results are all new affordable Focus,Fiesta,Cruize,Sonic,Jetta,Golf etc etc.

Will see how BRZ/FR-S impact the market.
 
#47 ·
"Toyota beats Porsche"? In their article they say the Porsche pretty much beat the Toyota in every performance aspect (even though they didn't actually give any hard numbers) but declare the 86 the winner because, in their opinion, it had more soul. No doubt the 86 is one of the best fun/dollar bargains out there, but no one who can actually afford a Cayman is going to consider it.
 
#52 ·
No doubt the 86 is one of the best fun/dollar bargains out there, but no one who can actually afford a Cayman is going to consider it.
I could afford a lot more car than I actually own, but choose not to because I haven't met an expensive car that really made think "this thing fits *my needs* better than something that costs half as much."

Maybe by your definition that means I can't really afford it. But Porsches aren't really "wipe your butt with $100 bills, if you have to ask you can't afford it" cars, especially the Cayman, which is the second cheapest model they produce by a narrow margin.

And if you can afford a new FR-S you can afford a used Cayman.
 
#48 ·
What BS..Comparing an FR-S to a Cayman is like comparing Kelly Clarkson to Kate Upton. No competition.. and why even bother using the Cayman as its benchmark since its not any faster than a Miata. That magazine conclusion is that the FR-S>Cayman?? :what: :what: Biggest BS I have read lately..some of these magazine are very suspect in their reviews, makes you wonder how much they are getting from Toyota.
Ya I mean it has so little torque you would get killed passing on a hill.
 
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