Installed BFI Stage 2 Chip, ran great for 4 days, now idle problems & rev hang

[911_fan]

WHAT????

No no no...

This wasn't a "Oh my gosh, that's awesome" what.

It was a "what the hell did you just type" what.

I understood NONE of what you wrote. Especially the ebay part/massive vacuum leak part.

[gtiswapped96]

Lol ok to make it short....cheap eBay part confuses o2 by sending more air into the chamber thus preventing my CEL ...and gave me 33mpg to h2oi....I've NEVER had good mileage like that..I probably have the code pending but aleast I'm not clearing my ecu everyday with my scanner....better?

[911_fan]

post a link to that part.

[gtiswapped96]

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hks-pow...vehicles-37502

Basically this same thing...but on ebay...let the laughing begin...cause this is vortex and I know what the deal is with funny parts like these....but screw it cause it works for me

[bluntman220]

i have a 98 aba with exactly that issue..the rpms hang at 2000 rpms then it jumps up and down a few times before it settles at idle(i'm glad i'm not the only one)i have replaced the following TB ,MAF, FPR, new coil , pcv system, evap purge valve,plugs and wires , coolant temp sensor , all vac lines replaced and tested and all new intake gaskets...then i put the stock chip back in and issue is gone..which leads me to believe its a software issue.....but i will say this i was really impressed with the performance of the 268 cam and stage 2 chip and the customer service so far hopefully the issue is resolved and i can enjoy my car again

p.s also get the P0172 as well

ill be watching this thread closely

[bluntman220]

Okay I got it to take new values (currently set to 90, was 128) in channels 01-05. The idle is definitely lower, but the problem is still there. When I'm coming to a stop and put the clutch in the revs now oscillate between 1900 - 2100, and sometimes it never settles back down. If (when stopped) I use the clutch to pull the revs back down to idle, then it will stay at 850 and idle there, but if I rev the motor a little, again the revs climb back up to the 2000 range and oscillates around there. How is this not throwing a CEL? Would it be worth it to return the BFI chip and head over to C2? This is really pissing me off now.

-Patrick

100% exactly my issue

[The Big V]

i have no idea what you said either gtiswapped96...you put a compressor on your intake elbow after the MAF or before? like a BOV for n/a cars? it builds pressure? so wouldn't that make the car run richer? or it tells the MAF its already running more and it then tricks the ECU into running leaner? i'm confused.

BFI contacted a few of us today and they are testing some new modified tunes for the cars to see if they can eliminate the problem...very impressed with their customer service right now.

[gtiswapped96]

Installed the line after the evap purge valve before the throttle body...stock hose already had a t-fitting so I used that....just sucks in xtra air after the maf sensor

[GloryFreak]

Yeap still CEL free boys...another day went by and nothing....I should probably hook up my ultragauge to see if its pending but to be honest I'm worried about what I'm gonna find.... I'm loving not seeing that light POP up on me on my ride home....so if anything its just delaying it...but hey its a step in the right direction right?

90% of the time i'm running rich, I get what I call a soft code that doesn't display on my dash...It is still stored in my cars ecu though.

[911_fan]

I'm absolutely floored by that product. That thing is a piece of **** and a waste of money.

What you 'installed' is a controlled vacuum leak.

You are probably unaware of this, but that isnt 'tricking' anything from your ECU. Any unmetered air, not measured as load from the MAF, will be compensated for when the ECU cranks up your fueling trim table percentages. Or until you reached your maximum and the CEL throws one of the P017X codes. Motronic ignition is way smarter than you think. Even trying to trick the MAF with diodes would only work on the open loop cycle. The ECU is always trying to keep stioc (14.7) fueling in closed loop, and it wouldnt be till you went into an open loop would you see any difference. I could see this working on a MAP-based system, like a Honda (this is an HKS product after all).

That being said.....

I have no idea why something as stupid as this is keeping your CEL off. I would be curious to see what your short and long term fueling tables look like right now. I would bet that this...device...is only a short term band-aid and once your fuel trims are adjusted to compensate for the vacuum leak, you will get a CEL. I just cannot accept this as a 'fix' for this issue.

[gtiswapped96]

Like I said in my previous post I'm completely aware that this is a vacuum leak....I also know that what I bought is a knock off hks part..if I woulda found one that had a big German flag stamped on it I woulda gotten that instead...I've tried everything imaginable to get rid of that code including pm'ing u numerous times about this code without any luck(which I'm not blaming u for cause I'm sure u get tons of messages about technical stuff) so I've gone with less traditional methods....now I'm not asking for any1 to "accept" what I did cause at the end of the day its my car and I'm the one that's gotta fix it....it just turns out that now my CEL won't come on everyday after I "installed" this knockoff ebay "controlled vacuum leak"....no sense in pointing fingers and laughing at the dude trying to figure his sh*t out...

With that being said....
I'm not here to knock on no one especially tdoggs cause he does help a lot of people here on vortex...I'm just trying to do my part in fixing a problem that a bunch of us are having

[911_fan]

My point was, you didn't fix anything. If you were getting a CEL every day, there is a HUGE issue within your system, either being fueling (MAF/O2) or vacuum related.

What was the code you tripped every day?
How do you know you were running too rich? Do you have a wideband AFR gauge? Or maybe VAGCOM printouts?

Not trying to be a hard-ass, just trying to figure this out.

[gtiswapped96]

P0172 bank 1 sensor 1 too rich...popped it everyday new maf new o2 sensor and can't find a vacuum leak anywhere other than the obvious one I have now....I would give u some VAG_COM info but to be honest I can't work it 100%. I only mess around with it when I try to adjust my tb....get pretty bad city mileage but great highway...she was giving me 33 mpg on the way to OC which I've never seen before

[gtiswapped96]

And as far as my a/f gauge goes its divided into three parts lean,stoich,and rich....and most of the time it jumps from lean to rich back and forth like crazy, fluctuates a lot. Used an old school o2 sensor to hook it up(single wire type brand new)....I had an xtra Bung in my system so I figured y not, I really didnt wanna tap in to the factory o2 sensor wire

[911_fan]

That dithering back and forth is normal on a narrowband AFR gauge. Narrow band AFR gauges are useles when it comes to anything specific...they are just a pretty light show. It wont give you any specific info on how your fueling is doing.

[gtiswapped96]

Yeah ill agree with that...its just the wideband was 300 and I was told thats used more for guys running boost which I don't have(yet)....there's really nothing else I can check or change to make sense of all of this but then again ive always got crappy mileage even before all my mods but no CEL ...I'm guessing the more aggressive tune just made the problem more visible for the ecu?..these are all "maybes" and "ifs" Ofcourse..going out on a limb if u will

[911_fan]

Widebands are useful regardless. Its the only accurate way to relay your fueling. You can get an AEM UEGO for under $200 shipped on Ebay. Its right up there in usefulness as your scanner gauge.

The crappy city, but good hwy mpgs tells me that you closed loop is fine, but once you go into open loop, you have massive issues.

Have you checked your fueling system yet? Injectors and fuel filter? Almost sounds like a stuck/clogged injector.

[gtiswapped96]

New injectors new fuel filter...I thought about swapping in a brand new ecu...haven't pulled that trigger yet tho

[gtiswapped96]

New fpr as well...u name it I've changed it...except the ecu like I said

[911_fan]

you put in ABA injectors right? (just checking)

Im stumped. P0172 is related to these in order

Bad/dirty MAF
Vacuum leak
injector issues

The code trips after you exceed the mazimum percentages adjusted on the short and long term fuel trims. But you replaced everything.

Have you swapped the stock chip back in to see what happens?

[gtiswapped96]

Stock chip=no code but sh*tty city mileage...u think maybe ecu's shot?

[911_fan]

No, I think there is something not right with your engine.

[gtiswapped96]

Tell me about it...I thought maybe piston rings? How's about I just drop in a Porsche 3.6 engine? Seen a mark3 with one in at h2oi...wow

[911_fan]

Thats just the VW 3.6 V6. Its shared through a lot of platforms.

So this thread doesnt get derailed any further, my advice to you would be to remove both the vacuum leak device and the PEM. Run the stock chip and diagnose from there. There is something significantly wrong with your motor. Remove the questionable variables and go from there.

[gtiswapped96]

Will do

[Kiyokix]

I haven't posted in a liit, but keep giong back and forth through PM's with some of the guys in the thread.

I've also still got the p0172 code ('98 wolfie 5spd) on the car with the chip installed. I also get the same idle issues, I did adjust my idle down from the ~1050-1100 the chip came set with (did that this weekend). I have it set at ~925, and in order to adjust it I had to modify channel 01, but the others did not cause a change in idle speed. (channels 02-05)

Looking at the vagcom screen I can see it's saying roughly -7% lambda numbers, I've already tried 2 sets of injectors, 2 maf's, 2 throttle bodies, new upper intake gasket (valve cover and throttle body too), plugs (different gaps and types also) , wires, cap & rotor, fuel filter, fpr, front o2 sensor (rear sensor is currently absent), coolant sensors, new intake elbow, new pcv & grommit, oil pressure sensors, etc. etc. etc.

I've replaced all the vacuum lines I could find over a period of time, tried 2 different purge valves as well. I'm sure there is more that I've done, but can't think of it all off the top of my head. I've been trying to figure this one out for a very long time now. (I had another thread)

The car is not as strong as it was when I first put the chip in, I think the full power lasted roughly 1 week after putting the chip in at H2Oi 2010. The idle and weird hesitation got on my nerves at one point that I just went back to stock for quite a while. I've had the chip in for months now, and the full power isn't there that once was. The car doesn't run bad or anything like that, it runs like say stock power or about that, but VERY noticeably lower from the first day I put the chip in. Always running 92-93oct as well.

@ Travis,

If you want I can do some logging or supply whatever vagcom data you want if that'll help solve this for us all.


Kei

(I'm also MORE than willing to be a guinea pig for a new flash as well)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I also get that random stalling at idle too sometimes (it's been a while though), but it will act like it's about to cut out at the strangest times randomly...actually that part happened again today

[Pry]

I had the exact same issue with my C2 chip and bbm supercharger setup, I just always figured it was because of the s/c and the position of the throttle body. When I put the throttle body on the intake it would stop doing it. It was exactly how you guys describe it though, random idle hanging/raising between 1-2k rpms when coming to a stop. Never had that problem with early non-c2 chips but they also ran like crap and stalled out constantly, the c2 chip was such a drastic improvement that I never bothered to mention it.

Good luck figuring this out.

[GloryFreak]

Weird Update: Just for experimentation purposes, I ran 89 octane today and the car seemed to do actually better for some reason. Power felt like it was there and "almost" no throttle lag. It almost feels like the car has more power with 89 vs 93. Just an experimentation.

[Kiyokix]

Interesting, are you sure it wasn't just a placebo effect? That would be interesting if it was indeed a noticable difference in dong that.

Kei

[911_fan]

I ran lower octane in the winter and never noticed a difference.

[dudeman08]

ive got a 98 jetta as well and have the same problem. ive got a 276 cam in there. the random rpms going up and down between 1500 and 2000 untill it eventually settles to 1050. also have a cel for running to rich and im also getting very crappy city mileage, yet amazing highway mileage. i know my maf is bad, kept cleaning it but the code keeps coming back, and i have a brand new vdo brand throttle body. any ideas? i noticed the crappy mileage when i went from my autotech chip to the stage 2 pem. from what i understand, the pem is like a fineley tuned machine that even the smallest kink will throw it off because it demands a lot from all the sensors readings.

[bluntman220]

Thats just the VW 3.6 V6. Its shared through a lot of platforms.

So this thread doesnt get derailed any further, my advice to you would be to remove both the vacuum leak device and the PEM. Run the stock chip and diagnose from there. There is something significantly wrong with your motor. Remove the questionable variables and go from there.

soild advice....lets get this thread back on topic

[cm123]

i have been having all these problems that all of you are talking about (P0172,car shutting off during warm up cycle, also while driving )
the code only came up whenever the chip was installed which is weird..
anyway, i sent out my ecu and chip over to c2 motorsports so they can check out whats wrong with it.
once i get an answer from them ill post it up on the thread.. maybe its the same problem for all of us who knows....

[bluntman220]

i have been having all these problems that all of you are talking about (P0172,car shutting off during warm up cycle, also while driving )
the code only came up whenever the chip was installed which is weird..
anyway, i sent out my ecu and chip over to c2 motorsports so they can check out whats wrong with it.
once i get an answer from them ill post it up on the thread.. maybe its the same problem for all of us who knows....

the rev hang is the major issue is it not?

[The Big V]

the rev hang is the major issue is it not?

i think they're all important issues----cant pass inspection with a CEL...engine shutting off is no bueno on warm up or randomly while driving even worse. the rev hang is annoying and the jumpy or bucking throttle at lower rpms is just as frustrating. hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it all soon!