Audi R10 TDI livery.

[chernaudi]

http://www.endurance-info.com. What do you think? Better or worse than last year?

[R10_Telemetry]

Personally, I like it - we have new uniforms too.
Here's info from Audi Sport, in case you want to know what the event was about...

Audi presents motorsport squad in Munich:
Audi introduces entire squad of 14 factory drivers
More than 300 guests see the Audi R10 TDI and A4 DTM
Nina Ruge moderates through the evening in Deutsches Museum

Presenter Nina Ruge, well-known from the boulevard and evening magazine programmes "Leute heute” and "heute Nacht”, hosted the Audi Motorsport Launch & Lounge event in the Deutsches Museum Verkehrszentrum.

More than 300 invited guests from media and society attended the world premiere of the technically re-worked Audi R10 TDI sporting its new design only two weeks before the 12 Hours of Sebring – the opening race of the American Le Mans Series (ALMS) on 17 March. At the same time Audi unveiled the Audi A4 DTM – the first race car for the 2007 DTM season.

The human aspect of motorsport was the focus of attention on the evening. The 14 factory drivers, including new signings Mike Rockenfeller, Lucas Luhr and Frenchman Alexandre Prémat, introduced themselves as did their eleven team mates. Media and also celebrities from show business and sports – such as Ralf Möller, Carlo Thränhardt, Thomas Friedl, Bernd Karbacher, Gregor Leutgeb, Sarah Kern, Valérien Ismaël, John Tripp or Patrick Kühnen – used the occasion to get to know the personal objectives and opinions of every member of the international Audi driving squad for the 2007 season.

The band "Soul Kitchen” provided lively entertainment after the Audi Motorsport Launch & Lounge presentation. A prize draw for two rides in the Audi A4 DTM Race Taxi with Audi factory driver Vanina Ickx gives two quests the unique opportunity to experience the fascination of motorsport from the cockpit perspective as passengers in the new season.


Modified by R10_Telemetry at 8:47 PM 3/6/2007

[chernaudi]

Can't wait for the press photos to come out later. If you ask me, it looks a lot cooler than the almost pure silver Joest R8's and the silver/grey/red simplistic paint scheme last year. And if RDriver is reading this at somepoint, yes, the car itself is pretty much the same outside(aside from the new paint, as you predicted), but there are probably differences mechanically to make it more reliable/effcient. It probably uses the same basic tub/chassis/suspension/mechanical components, but are of new build(or at least not used in '06). Possibly uses the '06 tubs though?

Maybe the new paint scheme will go some way to some people's big complaint about the R10-it's alleged lack of character. I think it would've looked good on the R8(OK, I'm done adding crap until someone else comments).

Modified by chernaudi at 9:24 PM 3-6-2007

Modified by chernaudi at 9:25 PM 3-6-2007

Modified by chernaudi at 9:27 PM 3-6-2007


Modified by chernaudi at 9:30 PM 3-6-2007

[lappies]

The livery looks great. I hope they have the old RED, YELLOW and BLACK cars for there 3 car team at Le Mans.

[George@Fourtitude]

I'm late to the party on this, but we just ran it. Geneva has me focused on other things. I'm surprised they dropped this on the same day as Geneva press days and didn't bring the car to the show.

Rather, I'm just jealous I didn't see it.

[lappies]

Where can you get hi res photos of the Studio Photos of the Audi?????

[audidriver4ever]

Like it! Let's hope for good results.

[CarbonFibre]

I like the changes they've made. It's interesting to note they're fielding 3 cars in Le Mans this year, no doubt as a result of Peugeot's presence.

[chernaudi]

I wonder how this would've looked on a R8. Nothing against Audi, but their factory cars were a little bland as far as paint schemes. Why Audi left the good paint schemes to their semi factory privateers for the R8, I don't know.

[Le Mans Champ]

I always have liked the paint schemes, but I get it why people think they're bland. But when I saw this through a myspace group at about 5 this morning, I literally spat my coffee all over my laptop because I was firstly surprised they changed it, and that they made it so great.

I love it. I just love this. I can't wait to get to work on it!!!

[chernaudi]

The new car is obvioulsy faster than last year's, and should be more reliable too(they never had an issue other than collision damage after Le Mans last year). And I don't know what Dr. Ullrich was complaining about, no matter how sound his arguments are(and they are usually very sound if you ask me). At Sebring durning the test last month, the car went an estimated 1-3 seconds faster than last year on average. And McNish beat his own record pole time unofficaly by nearly 2 seconds(Audi obviously won't release the actual time).

I know that taking 9 liters or fuel away won't help them from a strategy stand point as much as it did. However, the R10 is probably much lighter than last year, in part because of that. And the new particulate filters/cat. converters also help. And they probably can go 1-3 or so laps further per stint than the other LMP cars(in other words, they can go as far as the R8 did under green flag conditions). The car probably handles better than last year, due to the tires/weight reduction(improving weight disribution) and the engine electronics being remapped, improving drivability.

It won't be as easy at times as it was the beginning of last year. But with Intersport(nothing against them, as they're from Ohio) not being up to the caliber of the Audi boys(but still fast), and an other team using one of the ex-Dyson Lolas(and we don't know if it will be as problematic as last year), and with the LMP2 having more power, it should be interesting. And giving the LMP2 cars more power may be a bad thing, considering that most can't even get through anything more than a 4 hour race without major issues(or street courses for that matter). And the Acuras have had mechanical problems it testing, Mazda'a AER engine is largely untested, and the Porsches maybe having problems on raceday(especally on the bumpier, nastier tracks), it's still pretty much Audi's for the taking.

I guess that most of these questions will be answered at Sebring.

And at least Audi made the cars less monochromatic, and still made them look distictive and still look good.

Modified by chernaudi at 10:36 PM 3-7-2007


Modified by chernaudi at 10:38 PM 3-7-2007

[16v]

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

Why Audi left the good paint schemes to their semi factory privateers for the R8, I don't know.

One would assume that the liveries from the "other" teams were sponsor related, not dictated by the factory.

[chernaudi]

In truth, that obviously had a lot to do with it, even though most of the teams inherited the Infineon Technologies sponsorship from the Joest team. But why Audi couldn't have done something like this for the R8 is beyond me.

[George@Fourtitude]

Quote, originally posted by 16v »

One would assume that the liveries from the "other" teams were sponsor related, not dictated by the factory.

Champion usually has their own look and color scheme when they're not operating as Audi Sport North America. That started back in the Porsche days.

[.:RDriver]

All the other liveries were based on what those teams wanted to run, not Audi. Champion has used their white with color stripe thingys for years on their cars, Oreca was due to their Playstaion sponsorship, Johanson's team had the Gulf Oil livery, and Goh had their own design Audi UK was the closest to the factory, probably cause they were representing Audi UK or just didnt have their own design to start with.

Audi wasnt "leaving" the good liveries to the privateers, the privateers did what they wanted.

See the history of Champion liveries here. http://www.speedarena.com/news...shtml

[chernaudi]

Well, we'll probably never see anything like that again, unless the next Audi LMP is a gas engined car, or Champion for some reason goes back to Porsche.

And we'll have to wait until Monday for our first taste of the new R10 on a race circuit in it's current state in North America. That's the first of two days of private test before the race practice/testing starts. Hopefully someone will be watching the times, and see how fast this beast really is.

Modified by chernaudi at 12:48 PM 3-8-2007


Modified by chernaudi at 12:49 PM 3-8-2007

[.:RDriver]

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

Well, we'll probably never see anything like that again, unless the next Audi LMP is a gas engined car, or Champion for some reason goes back to Porsche.

Can you possibly explain that conclusion?

[chernaudi]

Well, only a factory backed team can run the R10 for as far as I can see. Oreca has even said so, and they want a R10 next year.

And the factory/sponsors pretty much dictates what the paint scheme will be in that case.

[16v]

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

Well, only a factory backed team can run the R10 for as far as I can see. Oreca has even said so, and they want a R10 next year. And the factory/sponsors pretty much dictates what the paint scheme will be in that case.

I am completely lost here...

[.:RDriver]

So you're saying that Audi will never allow a non factory R10 to run? But if its a gas powered one they will allow it run?

If that is what you mean, what makes you think Audi will never allow a diesel R10 to run with a privateer?

[chernaudi]

It's not that Audi won't allow the R10s to eventually end up in privateer hands, but no one can afford one(let alone two) right now, or have the man power to run the opporation without requiring a lot of Audi's help(a total of 70-80 people are at Audi Sport's tent on raceday usually).

So a lot of those people are hoping that Audi will sell/lease the old 3.6 FSI V8s, which remains to be foreseen beyond Swiss Spirit. The only other chance is that one of the guys who wants a privateer Audi wins the lottery(depending on how much the prize is, of course), or Audi reverts to running a gasoline car, which is unlikely unless Audi Sport/Volkswagen Group feels that IMSA or the ACO regs are too much against diesels, or favor gassers too much.

Modified by chernaudi at 9:59 PM 3-8-2007

Modified by chernaudi at 9:59 PM 3-8-2007

Modified by chernaudi at 10:03 PM 3-8-2007


Modified by chernaudi at 10:04 PM 3-8-2007

[chernaudi]

I mean, how much did it cost Champion to run the R8 for a full ALMS season/Le Mans? Probably as much as $10million plus, and that's probably conservative. If you count the ADT sponsorship and their other sponsors, and Audi Sport backing(albeit reduced compaired to the Joest factory team), its not unforseeable that as much as $25 million or more was spent a year. And again, that's probably way conservative. And there were probably 20, 25 or more people in the Audi Sport tent at any given time.

Fast forward to the R10. It's estimated that the '06 season cost Audi as much as $85-95 million for the R10(granted, some of that was probably start up cost, but is still far more than the R8). And they had over twice(leaning on three) times the people working on/monitoring the cars. So Audi obviously spent far more than they ever did with the R10 in '06 with the exeception of '99-early 2000, where the probably spent that much to start up, design the definitve R8 after LM '99, and start testing/racing it.

And only god knows what Audi Sport spends on R&D, as well as giving out paychecks to all their staff.

So, You could almost run a dominant(or at least decent) F1 team for what it cost Audi to build a diesel engined LMP1 car, basically just to be the first to have major success with a diesel racecar, and to prove a point-that modern diesel cars are as good-if not better in many areas than most gasoline cars. You definently know that Audi is convinced that the R10 will sell more TDI diesels(especally in North America) if they're willing to spend that much time, energy, and money on it.

But unless you win Mega Millions, you won't see that kind of money in one place.

[.:RDriver]

Well, you said we would NEVER see an R10 in privateer livery and I dont think that is something that can be said at this point.

The R8 was no opened to Champion till '02, that means the first two years were total factory efforts, just like the R10 at this point. Also, Champion in '02 was still basically factory, but they did want to differentiate the cars from Joest since he was still getting all the good parts and they didnt want confusion as to who was who. It wasnt till '04 that we had a Champion only car out there.

So for now, with Champion as the only representation of the factory, it only makes sense it would be in factory colors. For four years there was factory Audi colors in the ALMS, so it only makes sense something similar would happen this time around. When Audi has done what they want with the R10 for the factory, then maybe in a couple more years when the factory pulls back a bit, you'll see them allowed to run their own colors. We'll see.

But to say it will never happen again is a bit of a conclusion that just cant be drawn at this time.

Also I think the size of the team running the program right now is more indicative of it being a new and totally different program. As soon as it gets ironed out a bit, I have no doubt it wont take any more folks than it took to run the R8 and I'd imagine costs wont be that different either. And right now you dont SEE a significantly bigger team presence in the pits of these races. Whats happening behind the scenes is no doubt huge, but the size of the teams at the track working on the cars is not that different than when Joest was running the R8s the first few years.

[chernaudi]

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's highly improbable in the forseeable future. I'd say that it will be another 1 to possibly 3 years before this happens.

Granted, this being still pretty much brand new has a lot to do with the personell increases and fiancinal expendatures. Eventually, it will come down to R8 levels. And this being pretty new technology, it will be very expensive(in fact, Rob Dyson even admitted that he wouldn't have complained as much as he did if such technology was more affordable).

Right now, only factories can run diesel cars due to the tech stuff involved. And the same will go for hybrids when they come. Ethanol and gasoline are the only viable options for privateers. Diesels are avilable, but it's not a job where you can take a diesel engine out of a Ford F350, Chevy Silverado 3500, or Dodge Ram 3500(too heavy, too much capacity for regs, not poweriful enough), or even the 5 liter V10 out of a Toureg or Phaeton(like what Taurus did at Le Mans '04). And it's even almost all aluminum(like the R10 engine).

I wonder whem diesel tech will become affordable to privateers? Maybe when Audi starts putting R10s up for sale, and Peugeot does the same with the 908 in a couple of years(maybe).

[16v]

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's highly improbable in the forseeable future. I'd say that it will be another 1 to possibly 3 years before this happens.

c'mon man. I'll break it down to the two sentences above

1. what equates to the foreseeable future?

2. see 1. aren't the next 1-3 seasons the foreseeable future?

You have a lot of enthusiasm for the Audi race product, that's obvious. But your posts read like recitations from Sportscar Engineering and various website commentaries (4T included) mushed together.
Take some time to digest all that you read before you take it too literally and post about it

[.:RDriver]

Like Doug says, you definitely have passion for Audi, but you type faster than you think sometimes it seems like.

You start off saying "we'll never see that again," but then its the "not the foreseeable future," then its 1-3 years, which in my eyes is the foreseeable future.

Dont talk in so many absolutes. We had this before when you took one little tidbit of info off LMSR and the new car was absolutely running these times that were never mentioned.

Sit back, calm down, digest the news and think before talking.

[chernaudi]

OK, now I'll get back to the topic that this thread was started because of. Does anyone think that Audi will ever go back to the Quattro WRC/Trans AM 200/IMSA GTO 90/V8 DTM colors on their LMP cars? A little bland, but better than the almost all silver cars.

And a few questions about the week leading up to Sebring. The race week doesn't offically start until Wendesday. But I've read an ALMS press relase at Speed Arena(I think) that tomorrow is tech inspection day, and that Monday and Tuesday are testing days. What actually goes on on those days? I know that the cars are garage ridden after tech. But are there any major events that happen on those days?

And on the Privateer R10 deal, how long do you or anyone else think it will be before Audi starts to offer privateer R10s?

I think that my estimated time frame(with in the next couple of years) is reasonable, but I doubt that anyone can afford to buy one/race it by themselves unless the cost of operating it comes down to R8 levels.



Modified by chernaudi at 7:05 PM 3-10-2007

[.:RDriver]

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

OK, now I'll get back to the topic that this thread was started because of. Does anyone think that Audi will ever go back to the Quattro WRC/Trans AM 200/IMSA GTO 90/V8 DTM colors on their LMP cars? A little bland, but better than the almost all silver cars.

Doubt it, they are now back to their silver roots and will likely ride this one out a bit.

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

And a few questions about the week leading up to Sebring. The race week doesn't offically start until Wendesday. But I've read an ALMS press relase at Speed Arena(I think) that tomorrow is tech inspection day, and that Monday and Tuesday are testing days. What actually goes on on those days? I know that the cars are garage ridden after tech. But are there any major events that happen on those days?

They arent garage ridden after tech. Tech actually goes on for days and they will often run practice sessions before they are officially through tech.

There will be on track practice for the support series and possibly the ALMS till the official weekend starts. Sometimes the ALMS is allowed to practice, sometimes not.

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

And on the Privateer R10 deal, how long do you or anyone else think it will be before Audi starts to offer privateer R10s? I think that my estimated time frame(with in the next couple of years) is reasonable, but I doubt that anyone can afford to buy one/race it by themselves unless the cost of operating it comes down to R8 levels. Modified by chernaudi at 7:05 PM 3-10-2007

Hard to say, it also depends on whether or not the factory wants to continue. Champion wasnt really a privateer as much as they were the ASNA representative. Oreca was Audi of France, Goh was Audi Japan, etc. They ran their own distinct liveries to differentiate them from the main factory team and based on sponsorship. We'll see if that needs to happen again. I dont see the cars becoming true privateer machines.

[chernaudi]

And it's hard to say how much the R8 was a true privateer machine either, as all the cars ran Audi Sport (insert country here) stickers on them. Champion and Joest had Audi Sport North America. Audi Sport UK, well, that's it right there. Goh had Audi Sport Japan. And Oreca had Audi Sport France.

So if it didn't happen with the R8, why would the more complex and expensive R10 be different? I guess we'll never know until the time comes.

[.:RDriver]

Quote, originally posted by chernaudi »

And it's hard to say how much the R8 was a true privateer machine either, as all the cars ran Audi Sport (insert country here) stickers on them. Champion and Joest had Audi Sport North America. Audi Sport UK, well, that's it right there. Goh had Audi Sport Japan. And Oreca had Audi Sport France.

Didnt I just say that?

Quote, originally posted by .:RDriver »

Champion wasnt really a privateer as much as they were the ASNA representative. Oreca was Audi of France, Goh was Audi Japan, etc. They ran their own distinct liveries to differentiate them from the main factory team and based on sponsorship. We'll see if that needs to happen again. I dont see the cars becoming true privateer machines.

[chernaudi]

Well, yes. I was trying to refer to the fact that there were on 100% privateer Audi ALMS teams.

And as long as Audi sees it worth their while to be in the ALMS, that situlation is seemingly here to stay, if this is a precident that Audi Sport goes by.


Modified by chernaudi at 1:26 PM 3-12-2007