1. I replaced timing belt & water pump (1.8 T)
2. Drove car maybe 25 miles a few miles at the time
3. Then had to replace cam chain tensioner (aftermarket with no solenoid control)
4. Drove car 6 miles or so with all fine
5. One week later crank engine and find much noise
6. Check reveals that timing BELT is off one tooth and tensioner chain still appears to be ok
why would it jump a tooth? is it coincidental with the tensioner replacement? and why would one tooth off make noise? one tooth does not cause valve interference, does it?
thanks for any help
I got the non-VVT part because it was sold to fit (EBAY) and I had thought the solenoid was to activate tension not valve timing. Another way of saying that I am an idiot.
As far as being off a tooth, it's near impossible to jump a tooth once that belt is on with the tensioner. Have you fixed it yet?
I have an 04 gti 1.8t and I am a mechanic for a living so I found this forum, thought wow this is well written. so I ordered all my parts t-belt, water pump, tensioned idler pulley and thermostat everything I would sell if I was doing a customer car. Came in this sat. to do it on my lift and air tools. it started out vary smooth, then I found the vagueness of this write up....who knew that the harmonic balancer and the bottom crank pulley for the t-belt were bolted together. I work on toyotas, hondas and nissans and normally I pull the crank pulley bolt and pull off the crank pulley then a gear slid onto a shaft. there is no pic of him pulling the four allens first, and it seems like an easy pic to take.. Anyway so when I took the nineteen out I worked the crank pulley off like I normally would then the bottom gear came off with it. At this point I didn't mark the belt yet I was pulling the gear off to mark it. So at this point I didn't the motor to tdc yet so I had a mini freak out, then went to ask another tech in my shop nobody had done this belt. I checked all-data and the net nothing helpful so we just used mechanics logic. I believe the the flywheel mark is tdc for the crank and I hope the cam mark it the tdc mark. So that's how I timed it from nothing. Also a tip for putting the belt on (no pics for this and its the hardest part) I had a lift so its easier for me but the tensioner going in last is the only way this works (hydraulic tensioner) the belt is so tight. I set the crank back a tooth then had someone hold a wrench on the cam so it would move I had to use a pry bar to pull up on the eccentric pulley then and only then could I slide the tensioner in and the marks be on. It runs fine but I haven't driven it much since I am selling it
Is the flywheel a good mark?
i think u took the pin before put everything on position that i why is tight just keep check it for a few more miles to make sure is not rubbing against something but my main concern will be if u did not damage the hydraulic tensioner already. but since u use ur common sense as a mechanic u should be good all the motors work the same way but all they ar built and set but u can also set the piston at tdc using the cilynder 1 and take the valve cover gasket to check the cam marks has to be 16 rolls distance betwen both cams ut one will always be lil bit offset
This reminds me of a theory I've heard many times before. People who have never fired a gun before tend to shoot better than those who have. Newbies, who have 0 experience, don't have preconceived notions or prior experience that they try to use in a new situation and they listen and follow directions literally without falling back on habits they haven't yet learned. Basically, because you are an experienced mechanic, you tried to use experience from working on a different engine to this one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that the write up is perfect and you were wrong. I'm only sharing my observations.
Check out this write-up for a TT. Lots of pics much more detail for those of who are less experienced. Car is slightly different but I believe the steps are pretty much the same.
First, you should be replacing the tensioner. Do not re-use it.
This is what these garbage tensioners are known for. Once you lose tension, that's when belts skip teeth, shear teeth ... and that's when worlds collide. Or rather your valves and your pistons.
But ... if you insist ... you do not have to have the special tool.
M5 x 55 stud (that's what worked on my AWP engine) threaded into the tensioner body, washer and nut will allow you to compress the tensioner rod and de-tension the belt.
But do yourself a favor and replace the tensioner.
Great tutorial! I'm looking at ordering from ECS tuning. What do you recommend - an ECS brand kit for $249.95, or an OEM kit for $579.95?
ok so I have a 2004 AWP. I did the timing belt tonight and now my car idles like crap and wants to stall... I did the line on the valve cover and the line on the flywheel. It seems to be right there... What gives? will a tooth or two bend the valves? How do I know what way to move the belt? HELP!!!!
After reading this guide, I replaced the T-belt on a 2002 Jetta today. The car belongs to my boss, the station manager of the airline I work for. her waterpump failed on Friday and I ordered the kit from dieselgeek.com who overnighted it to me.
She's lucky that her Maintenance Manager just happens to do TDI timing belts on the side. I pulled her car into the hangar today and got into it. Three hours later, it was purring like new and pumping coolant. I found the impeller actually broke into two large chunks and I fished a few smaller chips of plastic out of the block.
It's a 2002, but only has 60,000 miles on it. Ive done at least 500 TDI timing belt jobs since I started working on them in 2001, but this was my first 1.8t. The guide helped a lot in understanding how the timing marks, tensioners and belts differ from the TDI. It was quite a bit easier than a TDI, but very different and took me longer than a TDI.
Hopefully the metal impeller pump will let her get another decade or more out of this car with no problems.
Ive never seen such a spectacular failure of a pump on a TDI. they leak, sometimes they even spin loosely on the shaft, but Ive never seen one actually crack.
Thanks for the guide!
Crap, 18 Pages.........
T-Gassers run hotter than TDI's, hence the plastic impeller being more fragile and oil coking problems... (Popped a WP off of a 11mm/.205 ALH TDI at 200k miles and the plastic impeller was fine.) As for the seals, I am not sure how hard they are to replace on the AWP but I would replace them. (I also have bad luck with the newer Teflon crank seals, 038103085E, and prefer the older rubber/spring lip variety, 054115147B.) An interesting Notion about unbolting the tranny side mount to tilt the engine enough to get the engine mount back in, this can also give you more room to work with when installing the belt/changing seals/WP. (Good TIP!) If you have a leaking front crank seal, Metalnerd sells a NICE crank holder that can be used to break loose the 19mm bolt. If you google FranksVWtdi, he also has a "kit" that includes the seal, sealant, and crank holder if you need to replace this seal. The #3265 seal installer tool is also nice to use, it's plastic but I don't foresee wearing it out...
FYI: Integrated Engineering sells a manual tensioner for the timing belt, (beware of the gap where the OEM tensioner goes).
I have done many timing belts on TDI's, 951's, 968's, and a B5 Passat 1.8T... now I am about to do a GTI 20th 1.8T. Different cars have their own peculiarities but align the marks and hand turn the engine 2 or 3 times and check the marks with each rotation then adjust the belt if needed. If everything is good then button her back up. For Dieselgeek parts!
Beside using the flywheel method of timing the belt where are the marks on the crank pulley and the block, I'm replacing mine on 1.8T 2002 tomorrow and my TB is loose due to a broken tensioner, so marking the belt is not going to work for me because it is loose now and it may have jumped few teeth arround.
Never mind I turned the crank shaft with old belt on to align the cam poley with the mark on the head, and then removed spark plug from 1st cyl and stick a long screwdriver to rest on piston 1 and turned crankshaft to the highest point with belt removed, actually the timing was off about 3 teeth had to keep turning the crankshaft alone for about 10 degrees more to acheive the highest point on the piston dome, it worked pretty good, the engine is even quiter now.
Last edited by latreche34; 07-25-2011 at 01:54 AM.
I match crankshaft and cam there a lined up...but could find TDC on flywheel did a lot of turns and couldnt find it.I have Stage 1 Sachs clutch and flywheel...i start tge engine and it does not start up...you think that could be the problem that the started of the far could not find TDC on Trans alined with the others 2 marks and it does not let the car stars...help me please!... Cannot figure out wats wrong with it.