Anyone have a diagram or something for the CIS-basic? I've searched all over and have found absolutely no information! To top it off, the Bentley is very vague on the subject. TIA
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Another Useless Ground Thread
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HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FAQ's ABOVE..PAGE 3 Thread 75?
Now what's up w/this? Number 6 on the charts show a vacuum switch. On this chart it's the switch for the upshift indicator...
and on this one it's just called a "switch"
I know the first pic is for 84-86, and mine is an 86, but my Bentley only shows the one in the second picture which is for cold start enrichment.
I guess what I'm asking is, how do I know which location my switch is supposed to go. I have it in the same place as the top pic, but I put it there, as it was disconnected when I got the car. Is there a difference in the p.n. or something to identify it? If it's for my shift light I suppose it's pretty useless since mine doesn't work.
Alright I figured this one out quite easily. It would not reach to on top of the intake manifold, so it has to be for the upshift indicator.
So now that I have that taken care of, does anyone know where to get one of these?
Mine is ruined from the P.O., and I need it for the connection that comes off the side of it. I realized that I don't have any manifold vacuum controlling the vacuum advance. At the moment the diaphragm is only plugged directly into the canister purge valve. So I would assume that isn't working properly either, since that works off the same vacuum as the diaphragm, and blah blah blah. Anyway, if anyone knows where to pick this piece up, let me know please. Thanks again.
HA! I haven't been in this forum in months and when I finally pay a visit, I find my vac line "diagrams" posted!
Anyway, I didn't have my Bentley on-hand and I couldn't for the life of me remember what #6 was referred to. I need to re-do the '87-'89 diagram, because it is indeed the Cold-running Enrichment Vacuum Switch. Edit: Picture/diagram has now been re-done which can be seen in the original post (VIN # is for Cabriolets). [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] .
The two switches are identical; same part number: 171 919 825 B. If the vac switch were to have been the enrichment switch, there would be an electrical connection near the manifold for it (but, according to Bentley and ETKA, the enrichment switch did not appear until the '88MY, or the very end of the '87 production run).
As for the vacuum check valve, ETKA shows, unfortunately, that it is not an individual part; it comes with the tube that runs over to the master cylinder. The part # for your 'rocco is 531 611 931 A (the part # is different for the Cabs, for some reason). However, the 16V 'roccos have a separate part number for the check valve (191 611 933 A); don't know if it's the same type of valve.
Modified by kamzcab86 at 8:59 PM 4-10-2006
Well hey thanx for the diagrams in that case . They are pretty helpful, and the only ones I know of in existence.
That's cool if I have to get the tube w/the part, I just need to replace the bad one. Do you know if it is still available from the dealer. I know of a few pick-n-pulls I can check out, but it would be nice to get one new.
So the thing I have circled is a check valve ehh? I'm guessing there is still manifold vacuum on the MC side? If so can I run the vacuum line into the little port that is capped off (green) in the first pic, or is it totally blocked off, and maybe I should use one from an 88+ that uses the port for the switch? The reason I ask is because I would run it behind the TB like the vacuum diagram under the hood shows, but I can't find a place back there for it.
Partsvoice.com lists 2 available; but they're at my former local dealer in SoCal and the last part I tried to get there after seeing on Partsvoice that the dealer had it, they ended up not actually having it. So, you can try giving your local dealer a try, but no guarantee.
The check valves all have 2 ports on them: if one is not being used it's capped off to retain vacuum in the system. There should be a port on the manifold; far left side, just below the idle adjustment screw. If your manifold does indeed not have the port, go ahead and use one on the check valve and make sure the other one is capped off.
I have a couple of questions regarding this diagram...
Inside the red circle - Are these prefabbed hoses that are all molded together as one piece? Or is this missing a vac tee?
Is Red 1 the same as Blue 4?
Is Red 2 the same as Blue 3?
Where does Red 3 connect to?
Where does Red 4 connect to?
Vehicle in question is 87 Cabby with non hydro JH.
Thanks for your time,
Modified by Chia's_MkII at 8:09 AM 10-16-2006
Red circle: One rubber hose that is molded into the shape of a "Y"; only Cabriolets with A/C will have this hose as it connects to the idle advance valves.
Red #1: Same diameter hose as the "Y" hose, but separate hose altogether. In the picture it runs from under the idle advance valves over to the "T" (just to the left of the brake booster line). From that "T" it goes to A) the manifold, B) to another connector where it plugs into a "T hose attached to the valve cover and where the big hose from the air box plugs into.
Red #2: Is the "Y" hose that runs across the manifold and plugs into an orange "Y" connector. That "Y" connector goes up into the connecting boot/vacuum check valve; your red #3 connects to that same "Y" piece and plugs into the head, below the valve cover; blue #3 also connects to that "Y" piece and goes over to the fender (charcoal canister).
Red #3: Explained above.
Red #4: Is the "L"-shaped hose that connects the large, round vacuum check valve to that orange "Y' connector piece.
Thanks Kam. You wouldn't happen to have the part # handy for the hose from the airbox to the valve cover, the hose from the head to the "Y" tee? In its present state the car seems to have a combo of the 2 systems and it's bothering me to no end. My VIN is 13299, so I assume it's before the 2nd setup. Nonetheless, I have a white tee on the side of the airbox boot, I have no cold running enrichment switch, I'm missing the orange tee you refer to, and the check valve is missing. The hose I have running from the airbox to the valve cover isn't right because there is no way to turn it so that it connects to the dang port. Also, the one hose that comes from the idle switches to the tee in the intake boot, that tee has a factory plug on the one side of the tee. Needless to say, I'm completely confused.
Thanks for your help,
Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 » Red #1: ...B) to another connector where it plugs into a "T hose attached to the valve cover and where the big hose from the air box plugs into.
Red #2: ...blue #3 also connects to that "Y" piece and goes over to the fender (charcoal canister).
After poking around a little more, I noted that in addition to a vac line going to the intake boot tee from the CC, like on an 88 and above, a purple colored hard vac line was positioned in the same hole, yet had been taped off and plugged. Does this help in identifying which vac system I have?
Sorry, don't venture in here very often.
I can get you part #s, yes, but not until much later tonight or tomorrow.
Let me dissect your two posts for a bit and I'll get back to you on your system.
Edit: Okay, your system should look like this:
but without the vacuum advance switch. If your Cab is a 5-speed and has an upshift light, then that same switch would appear down towards the vacuum advance unit on the distributor. The purple line should go from the vacuum advance (or from a "T" off it) over to the fender and into the charcoal canister. The cruise control system adds a couple more lines into the equation, but the system has its own vacuum pump.
What problems are you having, if any? Can you post a pic of your engine bay?
Modified by kamzcab86 at 6:30 PM 10-19-2006
I don't have a #6, "Cold Enrichment Vac Switch", & that doesn't appear on ETKA illustration #45-00. Let's start there first.
Quote, originally posted by Chia’s_MkII » I don't have a #6, "Cold Enrichment Vac Switch", & that doesn't appear on ETKA illustration #45-00. Let's start there first.
As I said, your car should not have the switch.
The cold enrichment vacuum switch merely plugs into a port on the master cylinder vacuum line; on the other side of the switch is a cap; an electrical connection then goes from the switch and off to whever it needs to go (fuse panel, etc.). Simply disregard the switch altogether when looking at the diagram I posted.
The cold enrichment switch is the exact SAME switch used for the upshift light on a 5-speed Cab (the upshift light was eliminated in '87 with the introduction of the cold enrichment switch). IF your car is a 5-speed and IF your dash has the upshift light, then the same vacuum switch would be located in the vacuum line off of the distributor.
This is the area in question...
What is this?
2ndly, I have an auto tranny. 3rdly, if this item isn't part of my mix, then where does that hose go. If it goes to the white tee that is in the intake boot, then where does the vac line that is inbetween cyls 3&4 go, since there is only ONE open port on that vac tee.
Also, you'll have to change the VIN from 13299
Modified by Chia's_MkII at 7:10 PM 10-19-2006
Modified by Chia's_MkII at 7:25 PM 10-19-2006
First, your car has no vacuum switch whatsoever, then. So, erase the whole vacuum switch thing from your brain. Second, it would really, really help if you could post a picture of your engine bay.
What you have outlined in green is two different things: a vacuum switch for an '88 Cabriolet and the throttle switch/throttle body.
From the vacuum advance on the distributor there should be a rubber vacuum hose connected to a "T" fitting. From that "T" fitting there should be a purple vacuum line that runs to the left, across the air box and into the fender to reach the charcoal canister. Also from that "T" fitting should be a vacuum line running to the back of the intake manifold, up towards the top (behind the throttle body).
There should be a plug in the intake boot (top of air box). From that plug should be a vacuum line that runs to the left and into the fender to reach the charcoal canister.
One port behind the check valve in the master cylinder line should have a vacuum line going to a small black check valve. From that check valve one vacuum line runs up to the vacuum reservoir; the other line runs into the dash and ends at the vacuum distributor for the HVAC system.
The large hose from the right side of the air box goes over to just above the valve cover where it takes a 90° turn and attaches to the valve cover. The "S" hose below that one attaches to the cylinder head, between cylinders 2 and 3 (thereabouts) and goes over to a junction below the boot on the throttle body (the aforementioned A/C idle boost line attaches here as well).
Modified by kamzcab86 at 11:53 PM 10-19-2006
"The large hose from the right side of the air box goes over to just above the valve cover where it takes a 90° turn and attaches to the valve cover. The "S" hose below that one attaches to the cylinder head, between cylinders 2 and 3 (thereabouts) and goes over to a junction below the boot on the throttle body (the aforementioned A/C idle boost line attaches here as well)."
I don't have a digital camera, so I apologize that I am unable to post a pic of the engine bay. After making alot of progress today towards repairing the system, I still have a couple of snags:
Where does the green line go? Are the purple & blue lines in the right place? If so, then I take the factory plug off of the vac tee...correct?
Thanks for your patience and assistance.
Bump for Kam or anybody that can answer the questions...
Ironically enough, a fellow '87 owner posted a picture in another thread. Maybe this will more clearly show the hose connections for you: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2892609 (I, unfortunately, do not have access to better pics of an '87).
While this pic is good, it still doesn't show clearly what is involved with the hose from the air box to the valve cover. I just purchased a hose that resembles the one in your original pics
In this other pic, it looks like there are several pieces involved...
The ETKA doesn't show 2 different hoses.
I've since re-drawn the diagrams completely:
And another one:
^That one is missing the line connected to back of the throttle body/intake manifold, however.
And, thanks to "the_nice_guy", here are close-up pics for you:
Furthermore, ETKA does NOT always show what is exactly in each year and model. If you'll notice, the "Y" hose connected to the idle boost valves is not shown, but it is listed on the part number list. It doesn't accurately show my '86's vacuum routing. Do NOT rely 100% on the ETKA diagrams (proof: the HVAC vacuum routing is not 100% accurate).
Modified by kamzcab86 at 3:39 PM 10-25-2006
OK. The request was made for pics of the engine bay...
As you can see, things are in quite a state of disarray. The hose from the airbox to the valve cover is new, but doesn't match what is pictured in the "nice guy" submissions. I ordered some more parts from VW, and I hope they are correct. My question still centers around what I perceive to be some additional vac tees/plastic pipes & hoses connecting the hose (AB to VC) & vac line from AC switches to VC.
Wow. The PO sure did one heck of a hack job in there.
Anyway, you need the connecting piece(s) for that air box hose that connects to the valve cover. I presume you have access to ETKA since you mentioned screen numbers. If you do, go to illustration 5-10 (bottom illustration on that page) in Main Group 1, Sub-Group 03. If not, I can pull the part #s for you.
The hose that attaches to the bottom of the idle boost valves and presently curves up, across the intake manifold, should have a "T" fitting in it. That "T" also connects to that cut hose extending out of the front of the intake manifold. The hose to the right of that cut hose is the vacuum line that runs over to the brake master cylinder; unfortunately, you'll have to source a "new" one of those, unless the hose can be decently glued back together.
The "Y" hose that is attached to the idle boost valves and is presently just hanging out along the intake manifold/throttle body, connects to the "Y" piece at the air intake connecting hose (where that "S" hose, which connects to the back of the cylinder head, is connected to); looks like that hose has a nice clean cut in it as well and its other "half" is still connected to that "Y" piece.
It looks like the other vacuum lines are okay, so long as they are connected to the valve inside the fender and are still in one piece and without cracks.
Also, I see that the pre-heat hose (metal-looking hose not connected to anything in the pic) is not connected to the air box outlet.
I have the illustration, but without part #'s. I ordered parts 24, 25, 26 & 29. If you are able, please LMK if these are correct.
Thanks for all your help,
Quote, originally posted by Chia’s_MkII » I have the illustration, but without part #'s. I ordered parts 24, 25, 26 & 29. If you are able, please LMK if these are correct.
Those should do it. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] You'll, obviously, need hose clamps if you don't already have 'em, but you can get them at any parts store.